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Question - Grandmaster some changes the we'd like to see

champdee

champdee

Apprentice
-b33~freeze working on all hitboxes midscreen without ex
-12~freeze midscreen w/o ex (creates mindgames with b12
f33~freeze no ex
-slightly bigger hitbox on clone to compensate for it going away on block
-clone not whiffing so close to the opponent in midspace so we can bait them and clone without it whiffing worked fine in mk9

-SOME sort of pressure that's safe/plus..give him his 212 string back, something of the sort, and some frame changes

Nothing huge but he should be compensated for losing clone on block... seems like he was designed on that and now we have what we have.. going from top 5 to like 15 or lower is bad design IMO

anything canceled into clone should be completely safe


feel free to add or discuss
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Grabbin' a seat. I am curious where this goes.

To be clear, I think the clone should work. All bugs totally ironed out. Any and all hitbox bugs squashed and fixed. None of this breathing hurtbox nonesense. Beyond that I am NOT qualified to say or even suggest, what Sub needs/deserves.

I think GM is strong, but he's not top tier by ANY MEANS, but the nature of GM is such that adjustments are tricky and must be done carefully.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Just a bunch of buffs to make sub zero easier to play. Pretty bad character thread. Not even single reasoning given.
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
so you like spending a bar on b33 on male hitboxes? This is some small stuff.. or you mean you would want more? What would you suggest then? At least contribute on to what you would like to see
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I'd interested in what knowledgeable Sub players think he really needs outside bug fixes.

Does he need anything but bug fixes?
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
SaltShaker said:
I wouldn't have a problem seeing Sub get buffs, just not sure that the ones you are suggesting are the answer.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure either, the top ones I've heard djt and tom talking in the backround at yomi about b33~freeze working on everyone.. so it's not just me guys.. the rest is mine and I feel like he needs SOME pressure... he only has 3 hit strings so it wouldn't be over the top ya know? So 212 mk9 string came to mind, and I legit want to know what you guys would add.. and make a serious thread out of this not some troll fest ya know? This character needs SOME help for sure
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
EntropicByDesign said:
I'd interested in what knowledgeable Sub players think he really needs outside bug fixes.

Does he need anything but bug fixes?
Click to expand...
I'd be happy with just the bug fixes... but even with it feels like something else is missing... to me, i think just canceling into clone making him safe would be good and that's really it
 
One Inch Punch

One Inch Punch

Noob
sub zero needs less damage scaling, i mean , if u freeze an airborne opponent midscreen u can cause at most 18% damage.
i guess ex slide should freeze the opponent without help of a clone,taking into account that other characters can switch positions and do a full combo , and the damage of ex slide into clone is low.

and i agree that b33 should connect with ice ball without use of a bar.
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
buyacushun said:
Sticking to the no reasoning thing? Give the people something to work with besides "give my character more combo opportunities, an easier time getting those combs, and make him safe"
Click to expand...
DIdn't think i'd even have to point this out but... mid screen he LOSES bad out damaged, your only chance is in corner... now next time you watch a mkx match count the seconds fought in midscreen then the corner see which is more. Oh, and not to mention a LOT of other characters do great damage corner or not, ermac for example.. good in the corner and midscreen just an example.That's just one of his problems

Just an example
 
Creepy00

Creepy00

Kombatant
I think most of us can agree with b33 ~iceball landing on everyone. There is no reason for it to only work on female characters.

Secondly, ex iceclone needs to be adjusted so that it comes out on hit.
So that you can reliably use ex iceclone and know that it will come out regardless if on hit or on a blockstring.

Other than that, he is fine as he is IMO.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
champdee said:
DIdn't think i'd even have to point this out but... mid screen he LOSES bad out damaged, your only chance is in corner... now next time you watch a mkx match count the seconds fought in midscreen then the corner see which is more. Oh, and not to mention a LOT of other characters do great damage corner or not, ermac for example.. good in the corner and midscreen just an example.That's just one of his problems

Just an example
Click to expand...
Even though Sub's midscreen damage is a flaw a lot of sub players have complained about doesn't mean everyone knows about it. You can't begin a buff/nerf conversation without at least explaining where you're coming from first. It shows there was some thinking involved besides "what do I want?" Makes things more understandable and also helps to make your views respectable.

If we're comparing Ermac to Sub. MoS Ermac (the one I considered to be the most played) takes a risky guess to pump out damage. Sub doesn't have to take risky guesses. Clone also makes thing safe and in some cases giving him free offense. Two different characters so of course they'll have to different lists of advantages and disadvantages. Sub's sucky midscreen damage is a pretty acceptable tradeoff for having clone (with multiple uses) and a 50/50.

As for bugfixes, sure I'm all for making the game work. I'd love for Kotal's 11 to not whiff on crouch blockers so I can actually use it. I'd say the b33 thing could be a bugfix. But I don't think clone needs any changes besides the wonky activation it can sometimes have.
 
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