General/Other Smoke patch changes

[MagicMan357]

if they buffed him id love to see a hits inside of the EX-move towards for pressure and mindgames, now that would be boss

 

[FrothyOmen]

Doesn't need it.

 

[kandehbar]

what do you mean by a hits?

 

[ApocaLips]

He means add a hitbox to enhanced smoke towards (like the fatality). Would be pretty cool actually, kinda like the other enhanced teleports, but I doubt we'd see that added in a patch.

 

[MagicMan357]

Yea apoc got it right, though its not needed (because he's a boss) it would be awesome though to give him at least one little option

 

[FrothyOmen]

....You can just EX shake which has 0 startup frames, and it puts you right on top of them for oki pressure. An EX teleport attack like cyrax's would be a waste of meter.

 

[ApocaLips]

Except if they bait the ex shake, you eat a combo. In this case, it'd be perfectly safe.

 

[FrothyOmen]

You can dash cancel out of shake into 21xxbomb for a fast punish. or escape. I think he's fine the way he is c:

 

[ApocaLips]

Dash cancel doesn't stop the punishment of a successfully predicted shake. They'll still get a punish on you. Enhanced teleport is 100% safe.

 

[MagicMan357]

Dash cancel doesn't stop the punishment of a successfully predicted shake. They'll still get a punish on you. Enhanced teleport is 100% safe.

See apoc gets it because it gives him pressure midscreen if some assholes wanna turtle like babies, you may "waste" meter then you can easily build meter after and rinse and repeat the process

 

[FrothyOmen]

magicman, I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Are you implying that Smoke's midscreen game is lacking? Because i'd like to have a word with you if you are.

apocalips, there is no answer for everything. If somebody predicts a shake and punishes you for it, that's just how it goes. I'm just offering a possible counter/mindgame that has potential to work if executed properly and with a bit of luck. Throwing a shake out there to begin with is risky. It's exactly like playing scorpion and getting pissed that if somebody predicts your spear, you're punishable from anywhere on screen. If EX smoke towards/away is 100% safe then just use that. Smoke has plenty of safe or almost safe options in the form of ending strings with smoke away/towards or smoke bomb and d4 > b23.

 

[MagicMan357]

no frothy i main him, i know he's a beast what im saying is he is all mindgames, no pressure

If he had this little device it would offer him a simple yet effective pressuring tool, thats it

never said he needed it

 

[FrothyOmen]

Ehhh. I don't want to play Smoketile or KaSmoke (ok,, maybe i'd like that last one ) which is essentially what the ability would make him. His EX teleport would become a dash attack, basically. If it jails them so you get a safe blockstring/grab/sweep mixup, and that's it, that'd be cool I guess. That'd be an extremely powerful, uhh, power to have though. I'd love to have it, but I'm just afraid of his balance if he were to have it. I think he's great the way he is, and don't want him to get buffed into the same light as the hated reptile, KL, and raiden

 

[ApocaLips]

I'm not saying it's supposed to be. I'm saying that an enhanced smoke towards on wakeup is useful because it's more safe than enhanced shake. Please remember what the conversation is all about.

In adding a hitbox, its added value would greatly depend on exactly what happens on hit. You can't just flatly state that it would be too good. For example, if it did pitiful damage and caused soft knockdown, IMO it would be a nerf because you can't use it for a 3/4 screen crossup anymore. That's an important tool to have vs ermac and similar zoners.

It's a cool idea, but claiming it would make smoke OP without any more information is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[MKF30]

It's easier to juggle them (especially online lol) if you do the enhanced bomb I've noticed after jp ins, dash juggles I've noticed the normal version tends to whiff at times...

 

[FrothyOmen]

snip

I meant that it had the potential to be OP, depending upon its characteristics. Given my potential idea, it very well could be OP. IDK, I think that it's more pertinent to discuss what smoke has rather than what somebody thinks he should have. With all due respect, Let's talk about why Smoke's good rather than why he needs a buff/change. let's talk about why your dick is great the way it is instead of giving every tiny reason why it should be twelve feet long and ejaculate money.

 

[ApocaLips]

Yes, anything could be OP. Crouching 1 could be OP if it did 50% damage. Or, more seriously, Scorpion's spear could have been OP if they didn't cap how many times it would daze the opponent, and Sub's freeze could have been OP if it didn't have a freeze limit. We don't reject ideas just because we could screw them up. Otherwise, nothing would exist.

It's perfectly fine to muse a bit on possibilities as well, especially when the topic of smoke's patch changes has been beaten to death several times over coupled with the fact that there are absolutely no changes for smoke reported for the next patch.


Back to magicman - I think that's a great idea, and I really hope to see it added in the future. It's workable, and similar effects are already in place in the game, such as the cyrax's and cyber sub's enhanced teleports.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

I hated the removal of the OTG(and still kinda do) but now he has 60%+ combos with one bar with the EX smoke bomb! WTF

 

[G4S KT]

I hated the removal of the OTG(and still kinda do) but now he has 60%+ combos with one bar with the EX smoke bomb! WTF

Well, (excluding the f4 reset) his biggest combos are in the low-mid 50s which is really high but not 60+.

Also, the real benefit with original otg was his ability to get a mid 30s juggle off of a naked jump kick. His bnb damage is actually up from pre patch.

Removing the ability to juggle off a jump kick was unnecessary from a balance stand point, but my understanding is that it was done because it was unintentional. I can let that go without making a stink about it coming back.

 

[MKF30]

His full midscreens do 42% with jip no meter, full corners are 44% no meter. That's plenty. Smoke's perfect the way he is, although I wouldn't complain about any buffs either

You need to use at least one bar to exceed 40% mid screen with enhanced smokey bomb

 

[FrothyOmen]

No. jip > 3d12 > 32 > 4 xx smoke bomb > 3d12 > jk xx air throw. 42% midscreen no meter, has the ability to be followed with EX bomb for 10% unscaled although timing is very strict.

Check my post full of Smoke combos here to learn all of the currently known most damaging/important combos for Smoke that I'm aware of plus it's KT approved so it must not be too bad

 

[G4S KT]

plus it's KT approved so it must not be too bad

lol, damage is damage as far as Im concerned. That combo and my combo both start the same and end the same, so it's just user preference.

So far though, I think I'm alone in jip > 3d12 > njp > b23 > smoke bomb > 3d12 > jk/at land