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Guide Smoke Frame Data

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
d1~bomb has a 17 frame gap when the d1 is blocked. Literally every time you expect smoke to throw a d1 you can block and immediately punch him in the dick for doing it.
It's a 18 frame gap, but the start-up of the bomb is 14, which means the rest 4 frames the bomb will still hit you even if you punch him.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
It's a 18 frame gap, but the start-up of the bomb is 14, which means the rest 4 frames the bomb will still hit you even if you punch him.
According to Chaosphere's Frame Data Conclusions (extrapolated from the somberness frame data) it's a 17 frame gap between the d1 hitting and the smoke bomb hitting. According to Somberness's frame data, Smoke bomb leaves smoke's hand and is uninterruptable on frame 14/19. This means that if Smoke does d1~bomb, you have 12 absolute frames to interrupt, meaning there's 6 frames for you to input a 6f poke in order to completely interrupt Smoke. No smoke is going to risk a point blank smoke bomb after d1 barring a random check though, so you can expect to have a much larger window to punish his surely incoming d1, d3, d4, or b23, all of which leave him negative on block (with the exception of d4)
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
According to Chaosphere's Frame Data Conclusions (extrapolated from the somberness frame data) it's a 17 frame gap between the d1 hitting and the smoke bomb hitting. According to Somberness's frame data, Smoke bomb leaves smoke's hand and is uninterruptable on frame 14/19. This means that if Smoke does d1~bomb, you have 12 absolute frames to interrupt, meaning there's 6 frames for you to input a 6f poke in order to completely interrupt Smoke. No smoke is going to risk a point blank smoke bomb after d1 barring a random check though, so you can expect to have a much larger window to punish his surely incoming d1, d3, d4, or b23, all of which leave him negative on block (with the exception of d4)
Yeah, actually I think you're right it's -12 my bad, still needs to be punished. I look at tournament footage and it looks like people are afraid to do it. I don't play against a Smoke, maybe it's hard to do, but theoretically no one should be afraid to punch him after a blocked d1. He has no options, even his teleport is slow if canceled.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
You have to remember that despite there being a big frame disadvantage, all of this happens in 1/3 of a second. You cannot physically react to that in time, it's impossible. You have to read smoke's d1, and once you do you blow him up every time. It's disgusting.
 

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
I heard that 3, d1, 2 can be poked out of.
Where can I poke out of? (Liu has a 7 frame d3, a 10 frame d1) d1 is useless....
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
I heard that 3, d1, 2 can be poked out of.
Where can I poke out of? (Liu has a 7 frame d3, a 10 frame d1) d1 is useless....
It can only be X-Rayed out of. There is a 1 frame gap between each hit of the string. ( 3 HERE d1 HERE 2). I have no idea if moves like EX Shake or LK Parry will counter it or not.
 

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
It can only be X-Rayed out of. There is a 1 frame gap between each hit of the string. ( 3 HERE d1 HERE 2). I have no idea if moves like EX Shake or LK Parry will counter it or not.
Dang. LK can't parry as it has a 9 frame startup. I don't know about EX Shake.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
I don't think so. Meter bug almost certainly would kick in. Only x-rays work because they have 2 frames invincibility on startup
 

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
I don't think so. Meter bug almost certainly would kick in. Only x-rays work because they have 2 frames invincibility on startup
It does? I didn't know that. Smoke has been giving me some problems lately. I was hoping the frame data would help me.
3, d1, 2 is neutral on block. His pokes beat mine. I'm at a stump.

FrothyOmen Your sig is hilarious!
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
Theoretically, 1 frame parries should interrupt as they become active at the same frame as the normal, but they should have advantage being a special. If so, it's a just frame thing.
 

Somberness

Lights
Premium Supporter
Top Kontributor
Theoretically, 1 frame parries should interrupt as they become active at the same frame as the normal, but they should have advantage being a special. If so, it's a just frame thing.
1 frame gaps means you get hit on the same frame that you recover. Anything that has 1 frame as a start up value will not work as you are hit during it.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
No... that is only if you are holding block and then immediately try to do something.

Doubt it, but I haven't looked at it.
What if the special is buffered?
Also, JC's en-nutpunch has invincibility on start-up, it might work.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
So if his smoke away/towards is 6 frames of start-up, does this mean he can escape JC's pressure?
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
I have a hard time rationalizing spending a bar to get out of cage pressure with a 3 frame window. But that's just me....
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
Accidentally used the wrong numbers -.-

The most you'll get off of D4/ B14/ F4 shake cancel is -3 :\ Still not bad i suppose but not good either lol.
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
RM_xSMoKEx Your math is sort of accurate.

You used block advantage on d4, cancel advantage on f4 if it hits and if opponent techrolls, and b14 cancel advantage on hit and if opponent techrolls.

I don't exactly understand why you used those particular values/what you're trying to do
 

FrothyOmen

P!
Premium Supporter
yeah I figured you were trying to learn about shake cancels. Trust me, I've been trying so damn hard to make that work. I find the idea very cool. However the only time I find it useful is off of a defensive b2.

b2~shake, backdash (slight pause), b23~hitconfirm bomb/block confirm smoke away. It works literally one time against whoever it is you're fighting. Hopefully you don't fuck up and can reset them off of it. Otherwise the idea is fairly pointless. :(
 

Nightwoe

Smoke's True Lover
Uhhh....I feel like I'm going to regret asking....but...I tried to understand the list of numbers...Forgive me for being a noob, but for clarification, is this oriented as the first set of numbers = 1 as in input 1=x (on x-box) and then the next numbers the number of frames?