Guide Smoke Frame Data

[G4S KT]

trying to shenanigan your way around up close smoke bomb tactics is risky business, even if you know what you're doing. That's a huge risk with little reward to try and poke him out of the SB when you can just block it and get guaranteed reversed pressure or a punish if you're quick.

 

[Dizzy]

trying to shenanigan your way around up close smoke bomb tactics is risky business, even if you know what you're doing. That's a huge risk with little reward to try and poke him out of the SB when you can just block it and get guaranteed reversed pressure or a punish if you're quick.

Yes.

Also I'm not sure if anyone else has commented on the quote in your sig but Dogface is awesome

 

[GGA soonk]

smokey That's not it, if you use a move that has 13 startup at the same time, it will never trade.
soonk yes

uh, yes what? I asked 2 questions

 

[smokey]

KT Smith : 3d12~d1 / 3d12~d3 (or any neutral hit which smoke has many of)
Remember the jackelope video from a while ago: well i knew already that d3 was a decent option, just never sure how much better til now.

D1 (6f)= +1 on hit(stand) -1(crouch)/ -13 on block
D3 (7f)= +3 on hit(stand) +10(crouch) / -7 on block

If your opponent knows that you poke after 3d12, or any neutral string for that matter, doing d3 instead of the standard d1 will mean if they try to counter poke 1 frame late, they will be considered crouching, and you will be on +10. If they block it you are pretty much safe.

Sort of explains why you can get a cross up after d3 and its reasonably hard to counter.

Thoughts or objections to this? Only thing i can find bad is they have 1 extra frame to counterpoke you, but if they consistantly beat your poke you can just block it anyway.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Man...2 is a 9 frame punish into the resets?

 

[G4S KT]

KT Smith : 3d12~d1 / 3d12~d3 (or any neutral hit which smoke has many of)
Remember the jackelope video from a while ago: well i knew already that d3 was a decent option, just never sure how much better til now.

D1 (6f)= +1 on hit(stand) -1(crouch)/ -13 on block
D3 (7f)= +3 on hit(stand) +10(crouch) / -7 on block

If your opponent knows that you poke after 3d12, or any neutral string for that matter, doing d3 instead of the standard d1 will mean if they try to counter poke 1 frame late, they will be considered crouching, and you will be on +10. If they block it you are pretty much safe.

Sort of explains why you can get a cross up after d3 and its reasonably hard to counter.

Thoughts or objections to this? Only thing i can find bad is they have 1 extra frame to counterpoke you, but if they consistantly beat your poke you can just block it anyway.

Indeed, that has been part of the 3d12 game for some time (in my head anyway).

If you d1 after 3d12 and they tried to jump, you get a combo. If they stay grounded and get hit by d1 that really doesn't do much for you.

If you d3 after 3d12 and they tried to jump, they get a cross up. If they stay grounded and get hit by d3 you can follow with pressure.

I knew that d3 was +3 on hit since november, but I didn't know that it's +10 on crouch hit. that can create more options. An uninterruptible (except with armor) d4, for example.

 

[G4S KT]

Man...2 is a 9 frame punish into the reset?

don't worry, standing 2's horizontal hitbox is practically non-existant. If there is any pushback at all it requires a dash in to connect.

 

[Somberness]

uh, yes what? I asked 2 questions

13 frames to interrupt is what I mean. If you include the down 1 startup, the smoke bomb will come out after 25 frames and hit on the 30th frame.

 

[Glass Sword]

Somberness
Thanks for the frame data.
From what I am seeing it takes 28 frames to dash cancel shake is that correct?

 

[Somberness]

yep

 

[Wemfs]

YES! Thank you!

 

[The_SNKE]

<3 Somberness

You are one of the few DIRECTLY responsible for the evolution of this game's metagame. Seriously, thank you!

 

[G4S KT]

Somberness I just noticed something strange.

b2 on block is 0, on hit is +3

cancel advantage b2 on block is +24, but on hit is LESS at +22.

It isn't +27? How is that possible?

 

[Somberness]

Somberness I just noticed something strange.

b2 on block is 0, on hit is +3

cancel advantage b2 on block is +24, but on hit is LESS at +22.

It isn't +27? How is that possible?

If you cancel into something, the recovery changes for your opponent for a lot of moves. I suppose this is to make some combo strings work and not slow the game's pace down.

 

[lazybird123]

Execution - frame number when a move becomes active, startup is execution number minus 1. Duration - number of frames it takes to recover after using a move.

Does this mean that if I do a throw and it whiffs, the throw animation will be 10 frames and then another 36 frames of animation afterwards or is it 36 frames total, 10 execution and 26 more if I whiff? Thanks

 

[Somberness]

Duration is from when the game performs your input until you recover so it includes execution.

 

[Bearserker]

Hi,

It's maybe a noobish question but :
- I suppose all hits don't contact only for 1 frame (the last frame of the execution time) : For example : F4 hits at least at two differents moments of the move, so F4 has at least 2 x 1 contact frames.
- So do you know what is the "contact duration" of each hit ? Or more accurately : the different frame intervals when the hits of a move contact (for example, with totally random values - F4 hitting intervals : 17-21, 47-59)

 

[FrothyOmen]

snip

I like this question. In case anyone doesn't understand the question, think of Stryker's baton twirl. That move has quite a number of frames where it can make contact. Frame data for stuff like this is kind of obscure, but cool to know regardless.

 

[Bearserker]

If you understand my question but it's ambiguous, feel free to correct it. It's very complicated to phrase it because English isn't my native language.
But basically it's a usefull information especially to know what to use against an attack implying the opponent's hitbox moves quickly (typically an AA, anti-teleport, etc.).
For example, I ever interrupted nomad dashes by spamming D3 because nomad dash horizontal hitbox is smaller than D3's one. Knowing the number of "contact frames" of each hit would allow to evaluate their probability to interrupt other moves.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Bearserker

I understood perfectly, the question was well written. I was more or less just trying to provide an example so people could visualize exactly what it was you were saying Also I never would have guessed English wasn't your first language! You are doing very well.

 

[Prinz]

Why is no one punishing Smoke's d1 on block? It's damn -13

 

[xSMoKEx]

Duration would be nice but in all honesty it isn't needed. Most moves have very short duration frames. The only ones i think would be nice are moves like Lao/Raka's spin, JC's x-ray, etc. The majority of jabs and other normals have only like 1-10 active frames. If Somberness did want to tackle this project i think we could get by with just active frame data for the moves listed above. (That have large amounts of active frames on both hit and whiff)

 

[GGA soonk]

Why is no one punishing Smoke's d1 on block? It's damn -13

oh, idk, the threat of a fucking smoke bomb?

 

[FrothyOmen]

oh, idk, the threat of a fucking smoke bomb?

d1~bomb has a 17 frame gap when the d1 is blocked. Literally every time you expect smoke to throw a d1 you can block and immediately punch him in the dick for doing it. d1(block) > d1 has a 19 frame gap, probably more since smoke will likely have to dash in to make the d1 hit. No reason to be scared of it, smoke throwing a d1 = getting blown the fuck up if the opponent knows how to operate a block button.

 

[Prinz]

oh, idk, the threat of a fucking smoke bomb?

D1 canceled into smoke bomb is still -13