Match-up Discussion Sinestro vs Scorpion - What to do?

[JHCRANE 14]

So I had a chance to play against a decent offline scorpion today (Although admittedly still day 3), and the matchup's not nearly as bad as I thought. I mean it's not good, but I honestly doubt that it's worse than 4-6 from what I've seen so far.

That being said, it is a really weird matchup, and pretty much I'm always holding forward and always approaching. That being said, SF style movements (Forward/backwards footsies movement) is actually really useful for baiting stuff out as well. I am also almost never finishing combos, since putting him fullscreen puts me at a disadvantage and instead doing shackles mixups and vortexes to ensure that he can't put me in a bad position.

If you walk forward, you won't get hit by a teleport, and his spear is easy enough to see coming that you can immediately switch block on reaction. Similarly, hellfire is really easy to see coming and can be jumped and punished on reaction. What this means is that closing the gap won't be hard at all.
Once you're close, either bait something out, block then punish (Since pretty much everything good is unsafe) into resets for as long as possible. The other thing I was doing, which while a somewhat bad idea since it's unsafe, but was working as a mixup to get that 1st combo to get resets going was to do B13 on his block while alternating between adding a DF2 or going into a d1. Both options are punishable, but only if he reads it right, and he doesn't seem to get huge damage off of it. On top of that, the random B13s tend to keep the opponent honest.

Oh and if you can, back him into a corner. A cornered Scorpion WANTS to use that teleport. Either he burns meter to make it safe or he eats a B13 punish.

The main issue I seemed to have in this MU other than how weird it felt in general and the fact that he can jump but I can't, was how stupid his left/right mixup game is. For example, j3 is an ambiguous cross up. Now if the Scorpion player thinks you're expecting the j3, he can empty jump over you to cross you up, then teleport in the air to cross you up a second time. I'm not sure but I think he should be able to cancel a blocked j3 into teleport as well. This mixup is far more lethal than his sub-par high/low game, especially once he's conditioned you to respect his jumps, all of them.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, if the Scorpion's getting cute and trying to do ground strings into teleport to cross you up, then just block straight down and punish. Scorpion's overheads are really slow and easy to react to, so don't standing block against him unless you see him jump or start those overheads.

I second this entirely. great post. Are you from down under? Are you an Aussie?

 

[Fromundaman]

No, actually from Dayton, OH, but it's a nickname I picked up in high school.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Alright guys, I played PL's Scorpion for the first time. The results were lolworthy but still, I could see this becoming a manageable MU in the near future. MB tele can be full combo punished with NJP 2 into B13. Once he starts waiting for you to jump, you can air axe to keep yourself in the air and the axe will hit him when he appears beneath you, which gives you a combo. Spear is good at blowing up your movement but it is highly punishable, especially when you get to mid range.

More to come. I am really gonna try to grind the mu in the next week.

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Alright guys, I played PL's Scorpion for the first time. The results were lolworthy but still, I could see this becoming a manageable MU in the near future. MB tele can be full combo punished with NJP 2 into B13. Once he starts waiting for you to jump, you can air axe to keep yourself in the air and the axe will hit him when he appears beneath you, which gives you a combo. Spear is good at blowing up your movement but it is highly punishable, especially when you get to mid range.

More to come. I am really gonna try to grind the mu in the next week.

Gonna be grinding the MU A LOT offline with Big D, so I'll let you guys know how this goes as well.

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Ok guys, I have new tech.

Anytime a hellfire is jumped on reaction from 3/4 screen or closer a follow up fear blast must be blocked. You can even be fullscreen and jump forward to avoid the hellfire then fear blast. Fear blast is safe on block from roughly 1/2 screen and further from Scorpion's reversal teleport punish. Anytime Scorpion attempts a reversal teleport punish after a blocked fear blast a mb fear blast will hit him out of his reversal attempt even from fullscreen for 7% damage + frame advantage.....zoink.

Bit by bit little by little....again I will post this in other threads to get the word out.

Back to the lab.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Progress:

Im now blowing up scorpions who blew me up day 1-2 badly.

NJ1/2/3 IS NOT very viable imo against top players. Axe is but you're sort of praying when NJ-ing

I need to play PL again to see how much better i am playing the MU because he is the definitive test. I do not appreciate people posting MU #s or thoughts on this MU without playing PL. Thats like some shitty aquaman playing me and saying OMG this mu is 8-2 sinestro.

But regardless Im getting better at it as a whole and when i become competitive w the likes of PRO scorpions like PL ill post MU video and commentate it to help us all. However this may NEVER happen because im only posting it if its competitive not the slaughter fest it was week 1.

WoundCowboy what was your score? SomeCubanGuy how was your session w big d?

Lets keep progress or setbacks posted and current

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Progress:

Im now blowing up scorpions who blew me up day 1-2 badly.

NJ1/2/3 IS NOT very viable imo against top players. Axe is but you're sort of praying when NJ-ing

I need to play PL again to see how much better i am playing the MU because he is the definitive test. I do not appreciate people posting MU #s or thoughts on this MU without playing PL. Thats like some shitty aquaman playing me and saying OMG this mu is 8-2 sinestro.

But regardless Im getting better at it as a whole and when i become competitive w the likes of PRO scorpions like PL ill post MU video and commentate it to help us all. However this may NEVER happen because im only posting it if its competitive not the slaughter fest it was week 1.

WoundCowboy what was your score? SomeCubanGuy how was your session w big d?

Lets keep progress or setbacks posted and current

Still havent played him yet as he went to Orlando for the weekend. I should get some games with him sometime this week. I'll keep you guys posted because we might actually stream the matches (he still has his streaming stuff).

 

[Fromundaman]

I do not appreciate people posting MU #s or thoughts on this MU without playing PL. Thats like some shitty aquaman playing me and saying OMG this mu is 8-2 sinestro.

Well, to be perfectly fair, we can't all play PL offline, not to mention I'm pretty sure I'm not even close to PL's level, so that would probably be too one sided to get any idea of how the matchup works XD

Basically I'm saying that when talking about matchups we should probably compare character tools and how they interact rather than "Have you played X player?". That mentality discourages people who don't have access to such players (I don't count online because really, a character like Scorpion is a completely different beast online.) from sharing what they might find.


Anyhow, since you probably have the most MU experience with this atm, do you agree with what others have been saying? Any other advice you could throw in? All my experience comes from day 3 Scorpion, so I'll take any extra info I can get

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Just do what everyone else is saying to do!
Block low, silly! Scorpions slow and does bad damage!

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Alright guys, I played PL's Scorpion for the first time. The results were lolworthy but still, I could see this becoming a manageable MU in the near future. MB tele can be full combo punished with NJP 2 into B13. Once he starts waiting for you to jump, you can air axe to keep yourself in the air and the axe will hit him when he appears beneath you, which gives you a combo. Spear is good at blowing up your movement but it is highly punishable, especially when you get to mid range.

More to come. I am really gonna try to grind the mu in the next week.

Anytime Sinestro lands the b213 combo in open space you can dash, jump, then axe of terror. This will punish a wake up teleport and super move . It will also cause all of his other wake up attacks to whiff so either way your safe.

 

[testyourpatience]

u are clearly just an idiot or trolling at this point

NO GOOD SCORP IS GOING TO RANDOM NON MB TELE. MB TELE WILL BLOW UP MB B3 EVEN IF YOU MANAGE TO DO IT IN THE TINY WINDOW AVAILABLE.

scorpion's teleport is like shoryuken: sure, it's punishable on block, but it's such a good move that they're gonna throw it out as scrubby as they want anyways because there's a possibility of getting lucky and it landing and it will keep your opponent from trying to zone/move. then he has random hellfires and spears make his random teleport safer. he sounds like such a cheap ass character when i put it that way, doesn't he?