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Match-up Discussion Sinestro vs Scorpion - What to do?

you guys need to understand something. the recovery of the tele is variable. perfect legend and i found a way to make it nearly safe... a NON MB tele. its gay.

u want high reliability here. u DO NOT want to wait until he lands bc the window is so small. U want to punish in the air. use it to start a standing reset or build trait. while in the air 11 whiffs. grounded.. ya it works but thats not your best option guys.

think high reliability.
 

JHCRANE 14

GO VOLS!!!
you guys need to understand something. the recovery of the tele is variable. perfect legend and i found a way to make it nearly safe... a NON MB tele. its gay.

u want high reliability here. u DO NOT want to wait until he lands bc the window is so small. U want to punish in the air. use it to start a standing reset or build trait. while in the air 11 whiffs. grounded.. ya it works but thats not your best option guys.

think high reliability.
If you 11 immediately after a blocked teleport then yes it will whiff, but if you have a slight delay and before Scorpion touches the ground you can 11-shackles.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
B2 is faster than f3... done right its hard to see

and mb fb DOES NOT auto correct. when he teleports... u cannot even trait him on reaction. the teleport his nearly instant. there is a small gap but its to small to react too. regardless, it would hit anything in startup frames so u have to block it.
B2 is still 25 frames, even if set-up with say an MB teleport it's still only 16 frames meaning in both cases you can at least block if not punish it, also B2 animation is fairly obvious (he sticks his foot over your head) and best of all is very different from most of the other moves he can pull off. It still takes some practice mind.

Also despite appearances his TP is still a large enough time to hit, that as long as you are expecting it it can be blocked, basically if you see scorp so much as twitch hit down kind of works.

I guessed that it wouldn't correct but I hadn't gotten a chance to test that specifically.
 

JaredL

Aww shit <REDACTED DUE TO FEELINGS> its Shapzam
u cannot whiff punish teleport. if you jump back and land or jump back and axe.... the move is not whiff punishable. very much like hellfire

That's why I said NJ. Neutral jumping makes it go below you and as you fall down, you get him with a J2 and a full combo.
 
it doesn't auto correct in time. and depending where you are on the screen.. u get hit out of a jump. GOOD scorps will rarely do grounded teles. an insta air tele his jumping/standing/crouching opponents man.
 

JaredL

Aww shit <REDACTED DUE TO FEELINGS> its Shapzam
it doesn't auto correct in time. and depending where you are on the screen.. u get hit out of a jump. GOOD scorps will rarely do grounded teles. an insta air tele his jumping/standing/crouching opponents man.

So bait it on wake up.

Honestly, its not that bad. Its like 5% if you get hit.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
you guys need to understand something. the recovery of the tele is variable. perfect legend and i found a way to make it nearly safe... a NON MB tele. its gay.

u want high reliability here. u DO NOT want to wait until he lands bc the window is so small. U want to punish in the air. use it to start a standing reset or build trait. while in the air 11 whiffs. grounded.. ya it works but thats not your best option guys.

think high reliability.
How exactly does it vary? By jump tping? How far away he is? As far as I have seen it always looks to be the same animation on block, and your supposed to punish while he is spinning mid-air.
 

JaredL

Aww shit <REDACTED DUE TO FEELINGS> its Shapzam
again... u are referring to a scrub scorp. why would any viable scorp do wake up tele when he has a fully safe/non mb/flip kick that cannot be back dashed and whiff punished?

It can be armored B3 punished. Make a read.
 
i keep forgetting that 90% of TYM is full of online players who have never attending an offline event. u need to test this stuff vs high level scorps. and that does not mean a scorp with a lot of wins on xbox live. i have the privilege of playing multiple players who have won majors. i will invite u guys if you pm me your tags or send me a FR.

a lot of the strategies your describing only work on scrub scorps who no good player should have an issue with.
 

JaredL

Aww shit <REDACTED DUE TO FEELINGS> its Shapzam
i keep forgetting that 90% of TYM is full of online players who have never attending an offline event. u need to test this stuff vs high level scorps. and that does not mean a scorp with a lot of wins on xbox live. i have the privilege of playing multiple players who have won majors. i will invite u guys if you pm me your tags or send me a FR.

a lot of the strategies your describing only work on scrub scorps who no good player should have an issue with.

So what the fucking point of this thread?

You ask for advice and any advice you're given is dismissed as 'oh no high level would do this'.
 

JHCRANE 14

GO VOLS!!!
again... u are referring to a scrub scorp. why would any viable scorp do wake up tele when he has a fully safe/non mb/flip kick that cannot be back dashed and whiff punished?
You can punish a wake up flip kick after a hard knockdown with the 27% combo if you are close enough.
 

JHCRANE 14

GO VOLS!!!
i keep forgetting that 90% of TYM is full of online players who have never attending an offline event. u need to test this stuff vs high level scorps. and that does not mean a scorp with a lot of wins on xbox live. i have the privilege of playing multiple players who have won majors. i will invite u guys if you pm me your tags or send me a FR.

a lot of the strategies your describing only work on scrub scorps who no good player should have an issue with.
I tried sending you a friend request on XBL but it did not go thru. I will try again later.
 

regulas

Your Emporer
u are clearly just an idiot or trolling at this point

NO GOOD SCORP IS GOING TO RANDOM NON MB TELE. MB TELE WILL BLOW UP MB B3 EVEN IF YOU MANAGE TO DO IT IN THE TINY WINDOW AVAILABLE.
If he MB TP, Block low, first hit of his string block low, if he used a punch as the first hit block high, if not keep blocking low. If I see either of the slow overhead animations with training you can react in time. The only possible way you can be hit is by Scorp slide if he cancels into it instead of doing overhead in the strings, not to mention all the low and overhead strings are very negative on block.
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
Lol yeah this match seems really bad,just picked up sinestro and am finding him really fun but this match seems ridiculously one sided ATM,either that or I'm just shit,proberly both.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
So I had a chance to play against a decent offline scorpion today (Although admittedly still day 3), and the matchup's not nearly as bad as I thought. I mean it's not good, but I honestly doubt that it's worse than 4-6 from what I've seen so far.

That being said, it is a really weird matchup, and pretty much I'm always holding forward and always approaching. That being said, SF style movements (Forward/backwards footsies movement) is actually really useful for baiting stuff out as well. I am also almost never finishing combos, since putting him fullscreen puts me at a disadvantage and instead doing shackles mixups and vortexes to ensure that he can't put me in a bad position.

If you walk forward, you won't get hit by a teleport, and his spear is easy enough to see coming that you can immediately switch block on reaction. Similarly, hellfire is really easy to see coming and can be jumped and punished on reaction. What this means is that closing the gap won't be hard at all.
Once you're close, either bait something out, block then punish (Since pretty much everything good is unsafe) into resets for as long as possible. The other thing I was doing, which while a somewhat bad idea since it's unsafe, but was working as a mixup to get that 1st combo to get resets going was to do B13 on his block while alternating between adding a DF2 or going into a d1. Both options are punishable, but only if he reads it right, and he doesn't seem to get huge damage off of it. On top of that, the random B13s tend to keep the opponent honest.

Oh and if you can, back him into a corner. A cornered Scorpion WANTS to use that teleport. Either he burns meter to make it safe or he eats a B13 punish.

The main issue I seemed to have in this MU other than how weird it felt in general and the fact that he can jump but I can't, was how stupid his left/right mixup game is. For example, j3 is an ambiguous cross up. Now if the Scorpion player thinks you're expecting the j3, he can empty jump over you to cross you up, then teleport in the air to cross you up a second time. I'm not sure but I think he should be able to cancel a blocked j3 into teleport as well. This mixup is far more lethal than his sub-par high/low game, especially once he's conditioned you to respect his jumps, all of them.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, if the Scorpion's getting cute and trying to do ground strings into teleport to cross you up, then just block straight down and punish. Scorpion's overheads are really slow and easy to react to, so don't standing block against him unless you see him jump or start those overheads.