Should Winners Be Able To Switch Variations After A Match?

[Tanno]

Fuck no. You can do it only at casual sets. Not in tournament sets. Every TO would ban him, if he did that.

 

[4x4lo8o]

So many characters only have one useful variation. This would basically act like a terrible balance patch that buffs characters with two good variations

 

[DaiHuu]

I don't like the idea of the winners being able to swap but if for whatever reason they could then I'd make it so the winner had to switch variation first then loser picks their stuff. That way winner doesn't randomly get advantage.

 

[haketh]

Arcana Heart & Meltt Blood have the same mechanic & allow switching. You’d be surprised how rarely people actually switch. It’s somethinf worth exploring for MK11 imo.

 

[Sutter Pain]

RIGHT!? But look at the muthafuckas who said YES to his poll. That shit is alarming!

Half his followers are probably furries and the other half would agree with literally anything he says.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

On one end of the spectrum we’ll have Cassie players like hmm do I wanna rush down or play some neutch this match?

On the other we’ll have Shang players like hmm do I wanna play this video game or just put my controller down, bend over and get fucked right now?

 

[NaCl man]

Nope.

The way i see the variation system is if you are a character loyalist and the variation you pick doesn't do well against a character/opponents playstyle and you loose you have the option to stay with your character but choose a different set of tools. This is like choosing a different character.

This would be like letting the winner choose a different character so it a hell no from me.

 

[Marinjuana]

So I lose the match and I go to counter pick, but then in the select screen, the opponent counter picks me with their variation. I then counter pick their variation. They then counter pick the counter pick with their first variation. I then counter pick the counter pick of the counter pick, before time runs out and we just wasted 60 seconds of everyone's life with some nonsense

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

Sorry but the rule stipulates "character locked on victory". Changing variation doesn't violate the rule sooo.... I agree with sonicfox. YES ! Plus, it alows secondary variations to be played, fulfilling their purpose which is covering match ups the 1st variation doesn't.

The official rules for any tournament stipulates for both MKX and MK11 "character/variation locked on victory" because they knew that people would misunderstand on purpose to claim "But I'm not changing my character, I'm only picking another variation".

Variations can change the whole gameplan and are usually considered as "different" characters because the move set is different. When one wins a game, his reward is an extra point closer to victory. The loser has the opportunity to counter pick, that's it. The only time a winner is allowed to change his character or variation is when the player on the loser side succesfully wins the first set of the grandfinals. Technically both players play another set, the losers grandfinals. It is another set so the winning player is allowed to change.

So hell no.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

The reason not to is so you can't gimmick out your opponent. Especially since this game is ft2. Imagine losing to a D'Vorah with some weird ass setups, and just when you think you got it figured out you have to fight a brand new set of tools and fuckery.

 

[Sanjo]

The official rules for any tournament stipulates for both MKX and MK11 "character/variation locked on victory" because they knew that people would misunderstand on purpose to claim "But I'm not changing my character, I'm only picking another variation".

Variations can change the whole gameplan and are usually considered as "different" characters because the move set is different. When one wins a game, his reward is an extra point closer to victory. The loser has the opportunity to counter pick, that's it. The only time a winner is allowed to change his character or variation is when the player on the loser side succesfully wins the first set of the grandfinals. Technically both players play another set, the losers grandfinals. It is another set so the winning player is allowed to change.

So hell no.

Show me the link. I've just checked the official kombat league rules. It says that "the losing player may choose to change characters".... And that's it. If I missed something, please enlight me with a link.

 

[DeftMonk]

I always thought this even in mkx. Otherwise just make complete characters ditch the variations.

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

How about this:
If the losing player changes character you can change your variation, but if they stay that character you have to stay on that variation.
I think some variations are designed to cover bad match ups from the other variation anyway, and like the man said; it would allow specialists to shine and give us more diversity.

The way this shit plays out currently with me goes like this:

I Pick Cetrion.
They pick their main.
I body them
They run to their pocket Scorpion
I usually still body them, but when I don't...
I switch to Baraka, and punish their UngaBunga shit for 30-40 a pop and win.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

Show me the link. I've just checked the official kombat league rules. It says that "the losing player may choose to change characters".... And that's it. If I missed something, please enlight me with a link.

I just checked the last big four tournaments for MK11 and you're right, there is no "character/variation locked on victory", probably because anybody that would register to these tournaments know the basics of the NRS competitive scene. However "the losing player may choose to change characters" implies that the loser is able to change if he wants to, not the winner. And don't say "yes but we're talking about variations", each variation are considered to be a different character because they don't have the same favorable or disfavorable match ups. In MK9, Cyrax/Sektor and their skins Human Cyrax/Human Sektor were considered as "different characters" just because there was a few differences of hitboxes.

Counter picking is just a help to the losing player, not a reward for the winner. The winner's reward is to be one point closer to victory

 

[CriticalDrop]

Well, while initially it seemed to me a bad idea, the more I think about it, the less crazy it seems.
As I see it, the current FT2 system that we see in pools and online ranked rewards enormously the first player that get a win. If you lose the first match, you can either pick a new character or try to adapt with the one you picked first. But, in any case, you have to make the decission with the risk of your opponent counterpicking if he/she loses afterwards. However, the decission taken by your opponent involves no risk, as you won't be able to change anything. This way, both players loses 1 time, but one of them is in clear disadvantage for losing the first match. So, I think that the winner being able to change variations in case of counterpicking could help to balance things a bit.
In addition, it adds a layer of strategy (not guessing). While counterpicking in the first place involves a guess between all the possible choices your opponent could take in case he loses, counterpicking against the different variations of your opponent only involves knowledge about the character in order to pick someone that could do well against all the variations, minimizing risks.

EDIT: I've voted yes, but I'm not really sure, since the fact that some chars still have only one good variation is a huge drawback.

 

[Sanjo]

Honestly, I don't like counter-picks in general. I would love to watch a tournament with characters locked, where you can only change variations. This way, it could be more interesting because you don't know anymore who might take it all. Even Sonicfox could face a bad match-up and would have to up his game even further. How hype would that be !

 

[Jynks]

Honestly, I don't like counter-picks in general. I would love to watch a tournament with characters locked, where you can only change variations. This way, it could be more interesting because you don't know anymore who might take it all. Even Sonicfox could face a bad match-up and would have to up his game even further. How hype would that be !

character locked but able to change variation on win or loss would be awesome. They should test it in kombat league one month.

 

[EarlyReflections]

Because yeah, MK11's second variations totally worth it.

 

[Sanjo]

Because yeah, MK11's second variations totally worth it.

Well, I noticed that one of NRS ' primary mission with this patch was to buff the usually unused variations. In that regard, I really think that a lot of players should spend much more time in the lab devising new gameplans taking advantage of the buffed moves. I also noticed that the problem with most of the players is the fact that they want to play EVERY character the same way... as if there were only two archetypes: rush down and zoner. ....sad.

 

[EarlyReflections]

Well, I noticed that one of NRS ' primary mission with this patch was to buff the usually unused variations. In that regard, I really think that a lot of players should spend much more time in the lab devising new gameplans taking advantage of the buffed moves. I also noticed that the problem with most of the players is the fact that they want to play EVERY character the same way... as if there were only two archetypes: rush down and zoner. ....sad.

You are right, indeed the patch focused on that. Maybe with some more tuning stuff will get ironed out.

 

[Tanno]

Arcana Heart & Meltt Blood have the same mechanic & allow switching. You’d be surprised how rarely people actually switch. It’s somethinf worth exploring for MK11 imo.

I happen to play both games, so I'm interested in how's it viable. AH: Konoha, and MBAAC: C Ciel here.

 

[greeneless]

YES ! Plus, it alows secondary variations to be played, fulfilling their purpose which is covering match ups the 1st variation doesn't.

I can see it now, player A beats player B,
Player B goes to character select,
Player A switches from variation 2 to variation 1, but doesn’t lock in
Player B hovers over a variation 1 theoretical counter pick character X but doesn’t lock in,
Player A toggles back to variation 2 without locking in,
Player B moves to a variation 2 theoretical counter pick character Y and still no one locks in,
Player select timer runs out

 

[haketh]

I happen to play both games, so I'm interested in how's it viable. AH: Konoha, and MBAAC: C Ciel here.

People just get to switch if they'd like, it rarely happens though because most people in those games are solo character/Moon/Arcana mains. I know some Nero players like to switch from F to C if they feel they really need the Deer & the AA potential of A Snakes,

 

[Tanno]

People just get to switch if they'd like, it rarely happens though because most people in those games are solo character/Moon/Arcana mains. I know some Nero players like to switch from F to C if they feel they really need the Deer & the AA potential of A Snakes,

I see. My main is C Ciel, and my sub is C Kouma. Who knows, I might fall upon one of these one day.

 

[Wallach]

I think I'd handle it like this:

Loser picks new variation: Winner cannot change anything

Loser picks new character: Winner can change variation only