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Should Watching Tournament Streams cost $$$ on Twitch?

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I usually don't go to streams. I pretty much just go to the GGA stream to troll those guys, and if I show up in other streams it's also to troll. I never watch tournaments with the expectation of learning something new. If there's some smoke matchups that I want to see I'll just go watch the vod on my own time. Basically my entire existence on twitch is to troll Wafflez and CrimsonShadow as much as I possibly can.
Ok so if I'm being real then this is Great news cause part of the PROs is that this would remove trolling and not everyone wants to have to read troll shit from people who haven't grown up

Trolling is annoying - joking around and being funny is cool and all but but if this eliminated trolls all together then lets get this in place ASAP
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
What if it's a 25-hour stream?! That's 2 whole dollars!
but seriously, what about subscribers and turbo viewers? They're already paying the streamer and Twitch. Do they get a pass for the viewing fee or would they have to pay as well? I know it's only $1, but it may cause some disagreement from these people.
Yes
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I wouldn't honestly care that much, but I bet a lot of people would just not watch just because they have to pay (regardless of the amount). I think it would probably end up driving down the viewer count which is going to take away from the amount of people that see the ads, etc that generate a lot more revenue for the site.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
No.

Having a working twitch app would be nice. If we get that working maybe I would agree to paying a small fee to watch Kabal in GF.
App is a Separate issue

However to have this work completely twitch is app would hve to be tied to it and work guaranteed all the time when connects to wifi signals
U can't expect t mobile to work compared to Verizon and AT&T but u should be able to guarantee wifi
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
What if there were two chats, a free chat and a paid chat? If you look at the new layout on twitch tv (twitch.tv/channelname/new) you'll see the chat on the right with two tabs right above it: Chat and Videos. What if there was a third, "subscriber" chat tab added to this? That way free users can stay free in the poverty room, and paid users can avoid the trolls in the paid room? I think that's a good solution, but that's something only twitch themselves could implement :\
Lol

So people w common sense and maturity should have to pay? Lol
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Nope, this won't work. Just like charging to go on facebook/YouTube/twitter won't work, even if it's just $1 dollar. The money comes from the ads. That's why I can't stand when people brag about having adblock when watching streams. I always try to explain to everyone that the ads are the only way the streamers get compensation, but they'd rather not sit through a 15 second ad and then brag about it.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Out of all the really, really, REALLY stoopid shit I've read on these forums in my time here, this definitely wins an award of some kind. In a community where there's like 500 tourney-going players all across North America (and that number is really pushing it) and MK-dedicated streams struggle to get 500+ viewers, you don't think that there's anything we can do to change this? Isn't that the whole reason why we are here?

Let's put it a different way. Do you really think potential new players and fans will be impressed watching 10 hrs of low-tier player matches? Hell, yesterday, there was people bitching about how bad Maxter and CD Jr looked on stream and they are MOST DEFINITELY NOT low tier players. Hell, something like that would turn away a large percentage of dedicated MK players.
This is true

We don't want to broadcast low tier MUs but provided entertainment and high level matches that are hype

Finding a way around this is important

FrothyOmen I agree w u on your huge post, I missed it originally, sorry my bad. I also agree w u phase 3 was probably best and I don't wnjoy commentators getting in asking if a character has a cool fireball

Commentators allowed on the mic should be educational and entertaining
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I agree that they should get some sort of payment. But thats what the donation thing is for. We should support the streamers with what we can afford. I would be nervous that having to pay 1.00 to watch would turn away people who have never watched a tourney before. If its free and you can just turn it on its much easier exposure for our scene. I think what we really should be doing is donating more whenever we can, and keep the option free for those that are newer or just in a tough spot. What i always liked was that they werent paid and they did it purely for the love of the game. The effort they put into it and the time shows to all of us how much they enjoy it, and i think everyone appreciates it, whether their vocal about it or not.
Well no one donates to even cover a checked bag fee at the airport for the streamer lol
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Nope, this won't work. Just like charging to go on facebook/YouTube/twitter won't work, even if it's just $1 dollar. The money comes from the ads. That's why I can't stand when people brag about having adblock when watching streams. I always try to explain to everyone that the ads are the only way the streamers get compensation, but they'd rather not sit through a 15 second ad and then brag about it.
I think if EVO charged a dollar to watch stream 80-90% of people who do it
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
This. I am not going to set up paypal or get my parents to put the credit card online to pay 1$ to watch a stream. I think all streams having pay to chat is a great idea, and would give the streamers more money but not alienate anyone.
They don't sell gift cards where u live either?

No one is asking u go setup accounts at Wells Fargo or suntrust
 
Frothy, I mean no disrespect, but this makes little sense to me; So you can pay to go watch a baseball game at Wrigley Field (lol) or your local stadium, but you can also walk outside and throw a softball around with some buddy's. Those are the same sport technically, but a very different experience that presumably is why people pay 50.00 a ticket. Taken one step further, you can watch the same game for free on TV at home, then why buy tickets to the game and go out pay 6.00 a hotdog and sit in uncomfortable stadium seats?

The same answer = the social experience. For the tournament this equals hotel room casuals, random snakings that end up as gifs in my sig, and the shennanigans that end up making the experience worth going to.

When you watch a stream, you get a part of that for free. In my baseball example, they are forced to advertise with commercials between each inning to make it worth them providing their "stream" of the game to you at home. What would be the equivalent for watching high-level MK?

Just some random thoughts...
They're not the same sport technically. If I want to play a competitive game of baseball, I can go join a league that plays it (or softball, but whatever). I can very easily watch a pro baseball game on TV. I and many other people don't care about the pros, we want to do our tihng, and there's nothing wrong with that.

What I'm really saying with my previous post, is that YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE GETTING WHEN YOU PAY FOR A BASEBALL GAME. I have no idea what I'm getting when I pay for some grassroots tournament. It could be great quality with top-notch commentary, it could be poverty tier with nobody on commentary and a 4G card that can barely sustain the stream. Literally anything could happen, there's no guarantee that if I pay $5 I am going to get a flawless HD stream and solid commentary throughout the event or my money back. That is one issue I have.

I'm going to be brutally honest here -- Goldfish is NOT a commentator. JamesMK is NOT a commentator. Phase 3 is BARELY a commentator. I go to streams and watch tournaments to be entertained. Part of that entertainment is the social aspect of the stream chat, which is what I enjoy the most. The matches on stream are cool too, but frankly if there isn't a high-quality commentator such as Tom Brady on the mic then I honestly don't care about the stream! Without good commentary, I do not feel that paying to watch a major (that I could watch for free on youtube/twitch archive later) is worth it. I would rather spend a few hundred dollars and go to the event myself than watch the stream for $5.

The social experience is something you can only get in person. And I wholly advocate attending and supporting events. But a REQUIRED entry fee to watch tournaments is NOT the way the community should go, it will only serve to alienate newcomers and will literally prevent growing the community which is what everyone's trying to do these days.

As I've said before, here's some actions I think SHOULD be taken to implement this idea in a move positive way that is less alienating to people:

  • Allow a stream quality up to 360p and chat viewing for free users. Ads whenever possible during downtime. Ads during button checks would be ideal.
  • Allow a subscriber or per-event ticket paid model, which allows users access to HD quality stream (if available) as well as access to speaking in the chatroom.
  • Those that are poverty tier and want to chat while watching the SD stream (like me) can use www.testyourchat.com like people have been doing since the dawn of MLG, and just have two separate internet browser windows open side-by-side.
This way, everyone wins. People who want to stay free continue to stay free. Those who have the cash to spare and want to support the scene by stream monstering instead of going to the events themselves can do so. Forcing a paid model on people has never worked in the past. Again, look at League of Legends. Look at Starcraft. Those are two of the biggest esports in the world right now. They don't pull that shit. Why should we? You all want to grow, right? To become esports? This is a very safe way to push ourselves in that direction.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Majors, monthlies, bi-monthlies like VSM coming up? yes... normal everyday streams, no.

I also think that chat should be paid subscribers only like spooky's streams at majors. Normal streaming is whatever.
Yep 100% agree w this
 

Obs_SmSwag

"I have good taste because I like what I like"
Good idea, I wouldn't mind. I can't for the life of me get my damn paypal to link to my debit card though, but i'm just an idiot.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I think if EVO charged a dollar to watch stream 80-90% of people who do it
If they made it mandatory that you had to pay $1 to watch a major event like EVO, VxG, MLG, Final Round etc, I agree that the majority would pay it. But for other majors, I think it would have to be $1 for access to the entire event like ZAQ said. I dunno how that would work since there's many different streams for majors now. Even then, I think people would just wait for the YouTube videos for the majors that aren't EVO/VxG/MLG.

$1 is an incredibly fair and affordable price, but the problem isn't the amount imo.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
$2 dollars...Thin out the herd, no more of those awful stream monsters. Cause you know that kind of people ain't paying for shit :D.
Serious man watching Top 8 on spooky w trolls weeded out was awesome

It's like going to a movie theatre and weeding out all the idiots who talk during the movie and f with their cell phones
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
If they made it mandatory that you had to pay $1 to watch a major event like EVO, VxG, MLG, Final Round etc, I agree that the majority would pay it. But for other majors, I think it would have to be $1 for access to the entire event like ZAQ said. I dunno how that would work since there's many different streams for majors now. Even then, I think people would just wait for the YouTube videos for the majors that aren't EVO/VxG/MLG.

$1 is an incredibly fair and affordable price, but the problem isn't the amount imo.
Well WB for example I would say have 9.95 do it all on his for $1.00

Spooky can do his thing the way he is doing it

Or have link able accounts where if u subscribe to KH for MK ur account is able to watch spooky as well or KH can broadcast their feed simultaneously
 
Commentators allowed on the mic should be educational and entertaining
This is one of the biggest things holding me back from supporting a paid model to be completely honest. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but look at RiBBz22 and I when we commentated CoCo and part of SB:A. We are not the most knowledgeable people about the game, but we know a good amount and did our best to bring the hype to the stream and make it fun for everyone, and I feel like we did a good job at that. I heard there were people begging for us to go back on when we were off and it was m2dave and slips (or something like that) on mic. You don't have to be this perfect commentator, just talk about the matches at hand and do your best to be entertaining. Failing that, try to involve the stream chat when you can while avoiding some dead air. If there's not a match going on, talk about whatever you want! I have a long list of silly questions prepared to ask stream chats to fill dead time just to get everyone to go "LOL WTF" and keep them occupied. i.e. my favorite question "if you had to fight 100 duck sized horses or 1 horse sized duck, which would you fight and why?" However when matches are going on, you have to be fair to everyone and at least try to commentate their matches as best you can. Nothing more disheartening then getting blown up in tourney and going to watch the archives than to have the commentators saying "lawl this is free" and not even talk about your match or note "if player X would just make this one adjustment he could be doing better against player Y".

Sorry for the tangent, but I do think that a large hurdle in this community growing is "presentability" to the stream. When I turn on AE or Marvel or whatever, the commentators are always awesome. I can't think of a time where they weren't. Going to MK..... I always kinda groan when they're not good. Good commentary is so essential to the quality of the stream, and given that a tournament is going to have a stable internet connection of the matches and decent commentators who will talk about the matches, I'm happy to pay my money for it! It's when that stuff isn't ironed out that I'm skeptical.

Hope this was productive
 

BlackBryan

B*tch Distributor
The only thing i have against this is that it would slow down, if not completely halt, the expansion of our game. I'll watch a random game on stream. I won't pay to watch a random game on stream. Even if it is just a dollar. In my lazy opinion, going through the process of checking out alone is too much hassle to watch something I don't already know I'll enjoy. I do feel we should find a way, as viewers, to compensate the streamers and their hard work. Maybe a 5 minute trial before being prompted to pay? Or something similar, anyway..
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
They're not the same sport technically. If I want to play a competitive game of baseball, I can go join a league that plays it (or softball, but whatever). I can very easily watch a pro baseball game on TV. I and many other people don't care about the pros, we want to do our tihng, and there's nothing wrong with that.

What I'm really saying with my previous post, is that YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE GETTING WHEN YOU PAY FOR A BASEBALL GAME. I have no idea what I'm getting when I pay for some grassroots tournament. It could be great quality with top-notch commentary, it could be poverty tier with nobody on commentary and a 4G card that can barely sustain the stream. Literally anything could happen, there's no guarantee that if I pay $5 I am going to get a flawless HD stream and solid commentary throughout the event or my money back. That is one issue I have.

I'm going to be brutally honest here -- Goldfish is NOT a commentator. JamesMK is NOT a commentator. Phase 3 is BARELY a commentator. I go to streams and watch tournaments to be entertained. Part of that entertainment is the social aspect of the stream chat, which is what I enjoy the most. The matches on stream are cool too, but frankly if there isn't a high-quality commentator such as Tom Brady on the mic then I honestly don't care about the stream! Without good commentary, I do not feel that paying to watch a major (that I could watch for free on youtube/twitch archive later) is worth it. I would rather spend a few hundred dollars and go to the event myself than watch the stream for $5.

The social experience is something you can only get in person. And I wholly advocate attending and supporting events. But a REQUIRED entry fee to watch tournaments is NOT the way the community should go, it will only serve to alienate newcomers and will literally prevent growing the community which is what everyone's trying to do these days.

As I've said before, here's some actions I think SHOULD be taken to implement this idea in a move positive way that is less alienating to people:

  • Allow a stream quality up to 360p and chat viewing for free users. Ads whenever possible during downtime. Ads during button checks would be ideal.
  • Allow a subscriber or per-event ticket paid model, which allows users access to HD quality stream (if available) as well as access to speaking in the chatroom.
  • Those that are poverty tier and want to chat while watching the SD stream (like me) can use www.testyourchat.com like people have been doing since the dawn of MLG, and just have two separate internet browser windows open side-by-side.
This way, everyone wins. People who want to stay free continue to stay free. Those who have the cash to spare and want to support the scene by stream monstering instead of going to the events themselves can do so. Forcing a paid model on people has never worked in the past. Again, look at League of Legends. Look at Starcraft. Those are two of the biggest esports in the world right now. They don't pull that shit. Why should we? You all want to grow, right? To become esports? This is a very safe way to push ourselves in that direction.

You make good points. But there has to be some way to get guys like 9.95 Phil or whoever is streaming some type of compensation. Stream equipment isn't cheap, and it tends to not last forever and/or get oudated. For example, our 100.00 yamaha mixer here at GGA is messed up. We really only use it to stream, but to replace it would mean forking over 100.00 for what? There has to be some way offset these costs, not even considering the time or travel expense of the streamer(s), or high caliber commentators. Brady didn't do MLG commentary for free.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
They don't sell gift cards where u live either?

No one is asking u go setup accounts at Wells Fargo or suntrust
How much do these gift cards cost? I dont even think I have enough money for Injustice yet, why would I go spend money on that?

I still dont see what is wrong with the pay to chat idea.
 
You make good points. But there has to be some way to get guys like 9.95 Phil or whoever is streaming some type of compensation. Stream equipment isn't cheap, and it tends to not last forever and/or get oudated. For example, our 100.00 yamaha mixer here at GGA is messed up. We really only use it to stream, but to replace it would mean forking over 100.00 for what? There has to be some way offset these costs, not even considering the time or travel expense of the streamer(s), or high caliber commentators. Brady didn't do MLG commentary for free.
Right, and that's where the real problem lies at our level unfortunately :(
 

ChrisJG

Noob
my mom would never give me her credit card to pay to watch someone play video games on the computer. I'd be pissed if that came to fruition.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
You make good points. But there has to be some way to get guys like 9.95 Phil or whoever is streaming some type of compensation. Stream equipment isn't cheap, and it tends to not last forever and/or get oudated. For example, our 100.00 yamaha mixer here at GGA is messed up. We really only use it to stream, but to replace it would mean forking over 100.00 for what? There has to be some way offset these costs, not even considering the time or travel expense of the streamer(s), or high caliber commentators. Brady didn't do MLG commentary for free.
Advertisements even state: "THIS ADVERTISEMENT DIRECTLY SUPPORTS TEAM SPOOKY" or something along those lines.

And not to beat a dead horse, but also pay to chat lol.
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
Advertisements even state: "THIS ADVERTISEMENT DIRECTLY SUPPORTS TEAM SPOOKY" or something along those lines.

And not to beat a dead horse, but also pay to chat lol.
spooky is big enough to be partnered by twitch...I don't know if 9.95 is, but GGA sure isn't. We get 0.00 for every stream we put on, unfortunately.