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Should forward roll be nerfed?

trufenix

bye felicia
It should be removed. It you're knocked down, that's it. You should be at a disadvantage. It's encouraged a meta where people just jump out of knockdown or mash uppercut because the offense player is being forced into a situation where neutral jumping is his best option.
Unfortunately okizemi evolved after 2005. You don't just "win" cause you knock somebody down in the corner anymore.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
That too. There's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to just hold the wake up option you want like you can in every other modern game. No need to time your tech in DBZ or UNIST, or hit a specific timing to quick rise or back roll in SFV.
Honestly, I'm confident they're deliberately wonky to keep them from being too easy or being too OS.
 

devdot4

Certified beginner
After watching lots of videos of the players in MK11 and seeing my friends play and also doing kasual matches, forward roll doesn't always work toward the person that does it, isn't it also easily countered if you use a throw or a low jump attack?
 
What's funny about all these arguments against the wake ups is that if you block on all the options, you beat them all except back roll.

There is a specific timing for a reason. I am not saying it is easy but you can determine the action if you wait. It's very similar to timing meaty to stuff moves in injustice. So it's not really all these crazy options. It's block or not.

U2 punish on block.

U3 punished on block in the way that you want knockdowns to be which is a highly frame advantaged situation.

Forward roll punished on block

Delay get up, same situation as the u3

Back roll, they got one on you. But many can still punish with an advancing move.

Regular wake up. Depending on your read/skill fairly neutral.

Are any of these scenarios wrong? Also they are reducing their resources which your block costs nothing to do. I do think wake ups are strong, but after training mode a lot on them it's not crazy like everyone is suggesting.
 

smaddy

I'm your huckleberry
They should absolutely not be nerfed or changed. All the wake-up options are fine. Breakaway...however, I'd love to see that go away entirely or be changed somehow.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Sounds like ice clone withdrawal and a bunch of people that have zero clue how to actually oki people with options and think they shouldn't have to respect their opponent or keep track of their meter. Guess what tho, there actually is a time where you dont have to respect their options and are free to do whatever you want, its after a breaker, you know, that other thing thats too OP lmao
 

smaddy

I'm your huckleberry
I do think it hurts some characters more than others but also in general I'm not a big fan of combo breakers of any kind really. If you get opened up, you should have to eat it. Obviously with some of the damage numbers now that some particular characters can do that would make removing it problematic without adjusting those first of course.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
After watching lots of videos of the players in MK11 and seeing my friends play and also doing kasual matches, forward roll doesn't always work toward the person that does it, isn't it also easily countered if you use a throw or a low jump attack?
there's a forward roll and backward roll. You can do either from any knockdown (I think) as long as you don't get splatted and you have one slice of def meter.

You can't do them if you delayed wake up, you can't do a normal wake up after them (u2/3), and they don't work "instantly" like tech rolls in most other games, so despite what Tom (etc...) would have you believe, the timing is the same on every single knockdown.

They are only vulnerable to throws, but I think there's a frame or two of recovery before you can attack and there's no armor or reversal frames or anything on what you do when you get up.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
I just don’t get why they made wake up options so strong when they drastically nerfed combo damage, pressure options (plus cancels), and 50/50 options.

This type of wake up system would have been perfect for the op plus frame special pressure, 50/50 fest, 50% combo games like injustice 1 and mkx.. not for this game
 

kcd117

Noob
I don’t think it should cost more bars but I do think the bar you used on it should take at least twice the time it takes to regen rn.

It comes back way too fast imo. I believe whoever makes the right read should be rewarded but sometimes I read a wakeup roll, punish it, then I read another one, punish it and when I look at their meter they already have another one on deck and I have to guess again in very short period of time.

They should also change the command to execute them and the window to do so bc I’m tired of getting random stance changes or nothing at all when I input it.

Another thing that is a must at the current state is a major major U2 buff. All U2s should have ridiculously high hitboxes. The way they are rn is terrible, you will lose to jump ins 80% of the times bc they don’t reach high enough even when you make the read I don’t really mind them losing to crossups (even tho I feel like they should either auto-correct better or have a little bit better hitbox behind directly above you) but it its so bad when you know someone is gonna neutral jum meaty you and you go for a U2 only for it to whiff and get you punished. They should completely deny and delete jumps in a certain area.

The meter cost and regen should be balanced accordingly, something like:

U3s cost one of each bar. The offensive bar comes back at normal rate but the defensive one takes 7 seconds.

U2s cost one of each bar but since ir gives you a full combo both bars take 10 seconds to recharge.

Foward roll allows you to put the opponent in a very shitty situation. Costs one bar but the bar takes 12 seconds to come back.

Back rolls are basically a punishable tech roll (I also think they should recover faster than foward roll) that can get you out of pressure sometimes so they cost one bar that takes 7 seconds to come back.
 

zerosebaz

What's the point of a random Krypt?
I kinda wished Sub Zero got the Ice Clone. I can hear Tom in my head:

"Ice Clone is broken!!! people in the corner can just roll through it. It's completely useless!!!"

:p

Edit: How could I forget, "Im quitting this game. I'm done with MK11."
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
For those with the bad corner memories, you ever been jailed by blocked double runjabs in UMK3 before? Yeah, now you remember. Lol
lol those were annoying at times, practically a corner infinite. If UMK3 ever got remastered they'd have to add a wake up of some kind if they kept the run jabs in.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
No, but you also shouldn’t be concerned abut your opponent literally phasing through you.
He's not "phasing through" you if he's doing a very specific rolling animation, spending a bar of meter, glowing, making a god damned noise, and even triggering words to pop up on his side of the screen.

Do you think throws are cheap too cause you can't block them?
 

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
lol those were annoying at times, practically a corner infinite. If UMK3 ever got remastered they'd have to add a wake up of some kind if they kept the run jabs in.
Nah man I think the game was perfect. Basically the bar for me with fighting games.