Strategy "Shazam!" -- Captain Marvel General Discussion Thread

[Indecisive]

Again i knew this :-P i just think (for me at least) that strict timing is tougher to do during a match which is why i think d2 is a better option. Don't get me wrong i use d1-ac all the tone its just that split second i have to wait for the hm is torture for me during an actual match lol

Oh no your right its hard as fuck. Thats why i never use it.

 

[imblackjames]

Oh no your right its hard as fuck. Thats why i never use it.

Haha! That's why I'm just trying to give us all more/easier options haha

 

[shinobispectre]

Haha! That's why I'm just trying to give us all more/easier options haha

Yes please easier options... : P Although if someone does pull off that wonky combo stuff on hit... Mind effed for days. Isn't the go to D1 to AT? That combos well right?

 

[imblackjames]

Yes please easier options... : P Although if someone does pull off that wonky combo stuff on hit... Mind effed for days. Isn't the go to D1 to AT? That combos well right?

Yea does

 

[Barrogh]

Generic kind of, but the style of Injustice doesn't seem to lend it towards 50/50 grabs...

Probably because those aren't even real grabs, more like unsafe OH/low with weird hitboxes. The only thing that is different about them is that how unsafe they are depends on block cancel advantage of whatever you cancel into them instead of being constant. It doesn't help that Shazam is a lot about those mixups in a game where other characters have safe ones and also can rely one them less if needed.

But hey, at least "high grab" isn't blockable now unlike how it was in certain game, guess by the time MK10 or IGAU2 will be released NRS will figure out why and how 33/33/33 work, as boring as it gets. But who knows, maybe they'll actually stumble onto something groundbreaking one day.

Not to sound like a dick though, I actually expect those games to be awesome and NRS really do show trend of improvement.

Edit:
Okay, let's be fair, some characters can already setup those 33/33/33, like Grundy and sorta Bane, I'm just not sure what's being attempted with those "high/low grabs".

 

[shinobispectre]

Probably because those aren't even real grabs, more like unsafe OH/low with weird hitboxes. The only thing that is different about them is that how unsafe they are depends on block cancel advantage of whatever you cancel into them instead of being constant. It doesn't help that Shazam is a lot about those mixups in a game where other characters have safe ones and also can rely one them less if needed.

But hey, at least "high grab" isn't blockable now unlike how it was in certain game, guess by the time MK10 or IGAU2 will be released NRS will figure out why and how 33/33/33 work, as boring as it gets. But who knows, maybe they'll actually stumble onto something groundbreaking one day.

Not to sound like a dick though, I actually expect those games to be awesome and NRS really do show trend of improvement.

Edit:
Okay, let's be fair, some characters can already setup those 33/33/33, like Grundy and sorta Bane, I'm just not sure what's being attempted with those "high/low grabs".

What certain game are you referring to? Just curious as I'm new. Yeah I feel the problems with his dependence on the mixup game goes back to how one sided wakeups can be at time. And this is speaking for Shazam whose wake up is just teleport : P Best in game? Nah but really fun to use. I just feel Shazam is incomplete as a character, the tools are half assed sometimes. Grabs I don't mind. Except maybe the utility of Achille's Clutch and how laggy the landing is. I really like the animation though. Projectile is borderline useless. Only time I have used it is to troll people, Chip death (which mind you doesn't work 70% of the time for me), or to end combos where I want to keep myself at a distance from Bane/Grundy etc. Teleport is cool and has interesting properties just wished it had more recovery and less startup. Atlas Crusher (Torpedo) is really awesome to use! Offline one bar places you really well at certain stages, but I would have prefered maybe a corner carry. Online people can't punish, whether due to lag, inexperience, or character matchup. I don't know basic Injustice but his meterless damage is laughable sometimes or just leaves him bad. Best I get without trait is 26-27% but that's using AT which restarts the wonky neutral game I have to play. However this is more of a side note, as I'm not sure how good his damage is compared to majority without meter. Trait is really gimmicky, I mean it's cool sometimes but I wish they didn't normalize the scaling. Haha okay now I'm getting greedy.

Overall he's a gimmick. Playing Shazam is a mixup in of itself for how it forces you to be a psychic sometimes I swear. But I love him. Captain Marvel forever. SHAZAM!

 

[Indecisive]

What certain game are you referring to? Just curious as I'm new. Yeah I feel the problems with his dependence on the mixup game goes back to how one sided wakeups can be at time. And this is speaking for Shazam whose wake up is just teleport : P Best in game? Nah but really fun to use. I just feel Shazam is incomplete as a character, the tools are half assed sometimes. Grabs I don't mind. Except maybe the utility of Achille's Clutch and how laggy the landing is. I really like the animation though. Projectile is borderline useless. Only time I have used it is to troll people, Chip death (which mind you doesn't work 70% of the time for me), or to end combos where I want to keep myself at a distance from Bane/Grundy etc. Teleport is cool and has interesting properties just wished it had more recovery and less startup. Atlas Crusher (Torpedo) is really awesome to use! Offline one bar places you really well at certain stages, but I would have prefered maybe a corner carry. Online people can't punish, whether due to lag, inexperience, or character matchup. I don't know basic Injustice but his meterless damage is laughable sometimes or just leaves him bad. Best I get without trait is 26-27% but that's using AT which restarts the wonky neutral game I have to play. However this is more of a side note, as I'm not sure how good his damage is compared to majority without meter. Trait is really gimmicky, I mean it's cool sometimes but I wish they didn't normalize the scaling. Haha okay now I'm getting greedy.

Overall he's a gimmick. Playing Shazam is a mixup in of itself for how it forces you to be a psychic sometimes I swear. But I love him. Captain Marvel forever. SHAZAM!

Shazam is a mixup character with weird grapples. I don't understand the idea behind this but it is very interesting IMO. Netherrealm wanted to try something different i guess. His projectile is only good in some MU's. I use it from time to time when i find it could be useful. i think His teleport is fine. Its one of the best Wake ups in the game. It is really hard to punish. If you do torpedo at a certain distance it will determine how safe or unsafe it is. Some characters are not able to punish. His meterless damage is pretty eh for the most part. Unless you use background bounce to increase the damage. His trait is amazing. People need to start using it more. The extra damage is insane. the extra chip is insane. Its just good. And he is somewhat of a gimmick but for the most part sometimes you need to play off of human error when playing against someone.

 

[SZSR]

What certain game are you referring to? Just curious as I'm new. Yeah I feel the problems with his dependence on the mixup game goes back to how one sided wakeups can be at time. And this is speaking for Shazam whose wake up is just teleport : P Best in game? Nah but really fun to use. I just feel Shazam is incomplete as a character, the tools are half assed sometimes. Grabs I don't mind. Except maybe the utility of Achille's Clutch and how laggy the landing is. I really like the animation though. Projectile is borderline useless. Only time I have used it is to troll people, Chip death (which mind you doesn't work 70% of the time for me), or to end combos where I want to keep myself at a distance from Bane/Grundy etc. Teleport is cool and has interesting properties just wished it had more recovery and less startup. Atlas Crusher (Torpedo) is really awesome to use! Offline one bar places you really well at certain stages, but I would have prefered maybe a corner carry. Online people can't punish, whether due to lag, inexperience, or character matchup. I don't know basic Injustice but his meterless damage is laughable sometimes or just leaves him bad. Best I get without trait is 26-27% but that's using AT which restarts the wonky neutral game I have to play. However this is more of a side note, as I'm not sure how good his damage is compared to majority without meter. Trait is really gimmicky, I mean it's cool sometimes but I wish they didn't normalize the scaling. Haha okay now I'm getting greedy.

Overall he's a gimmick. Playing Shazam is a mixup in of itself for how it forces you to be a psychic sometimes I swear. But I love him. Captain Marvel forever. SHAZAM!

He's referencing MK9 where you could block Sheeva's command throws.

 

[imblackjames]

Honestly for me i use his lightning bolt a good amount because it does an ok amount, plus after a Mb torpedo i use his enhanced lightning bolt because it freaks some people out and they'll either take the chip OR jump at the wrong time and get hit

The teleport is good as a wake up reversal or to get around certain zoning attacks (i.can teleport around supermans lasers on reaction like 80% of the time)

The thing with his grabs are they are high risk higher reward and it starts the second best oki in the game. so i honestly think its right where it should be.

As, far as his trait goes.... <3 it

 

[Indecisive]

People also need to start using B2 as a wiff punish tool. The range is insane. Also B23 is such an amazing anti air.

 

[imblackjames]

Yea it is! It beats out alot of stuff. Abbe if they are hit high enough leads to an easy trait activation mid combo

 

[Indecisive]

Yea it is! It beats out alot of stuff. Abbe if they are hit high enough leads to an easy trait activation mid combo

Ya i still need to practice that.

 

[imblackjames]

If they are high enough and you hit them with only the 3 then the combo becomes WAY easier

 

[shinobispectre]

Can trait be safely activated after a HM ender? I'm not sure since some wakeups i.e. Catwoman would seem like it would catch it. Yeah I like his trait too haha just not sure how to use outside of the corner activation then combo. Also does his 22 scale combos more? Or just what do you guys do to safely activate trait?

 

[shinobispectre]

People also need to start using B2 as a wiff punish tool. The range is insane. Also B23 is such an amazing anti air.

So like Black Adam? I just need to practice the range more, it whiffs sometimes for me but yeah I see what you're saying about it.

 

[Indecisive]

Can trait be safely activated after a HM ender? I'm not sure since some wakeups i.e. Catwoman would seem like it would catch it. Yeah I like his trait too haha just not sure how to use outside of the corner activation then combo. Also does his 22 scale combos more? Or just what do you guys do to safely activate trait?

Do it after a hard knock down. Its not as slow as it looks. 22 scales it only cause you cannot do a Ji3. You have to do a Ji2 instead so you lose damage. I do MB Torpedo and use trait a lot of the time.

 

[shinobispectre]

So yeah. I like Achille's Clutch how has Shazam going for the croucher's ankles. At least I think so.... Irony much? Anyone go to Winter Brawl or the Break here? How did it go?

 

[Indecisive]

So yeah. I like Achille's Clutch how has Shazam going for the croucher's ankles. At least I think so.... Irony much? Anyone go to Winter Brawl or the Break here? How did it go?

I didn't go to winter Brawl. I go to the break Every Week. Had to stop the past 7 weeks because i had class. Went 0-2 this week. Have to get back into the swing that things.

 

[BlastX21]

I'm thinking about picking up this character. I had a few questions though that hopefully some of you guys can answer:

1. How do you go about opening up the opponent outside of HM? I know that d3 is pretty much guaranteed and leads into oki, but anything else?
2. Does he have any crossup tech?
3. In what situations should you use b23?
4. How good is his d2?
5. Is Shazam better when being very aggressive, or being patient, blocking, and waiting to punish an opponent's mistake?
6. What would you say are his 2 best and 2 worst matchups?

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

I'm thinking about picking up this character. I had a few questions though that hopefully some of you guys can answer:

1. How do you go about opening up the opponent outside of HM? I know that d3 is pretty much guaranteed and leads into oki, but anything else?
2. Does he have any crossup tech?
3. In what situations should you use b23?
4. How good is his d2?
5. Is Shazam better when being very aggressive, or being patient, blocking, and waiting to punish an opponent's mistake?
6. What would you say are his 2 best and 2 worst matchups?

1. Let your opponent open themselves up by outspacing your opponent. He has no safe aggressive options so the best you can do is throw a wall of shenaniganery at your opponent and hope they get hit by it.
2. He has corpse hop stuff involving teleporting through a person on their knockdown allowing you to dash back over them. He also has crossup Atlas Torpedo on knockdown. Pretty good and relatively safe. He's not like WoWo or GL and gets to just walk up and do f3 though.
3. Whiff Punish or if you think they are afraid of HM and ducking. That's it. b2 into special also works sometimes.
4. It works. For the things it won't work on you can just dash under and HM punish their jump in.
5. He's better not being picked.
6. Don't focus on matchups by playing Shazam. Play him because you want to just guess right 100% of the match or lose.

 

[mfkaoz]

1. Let your opponent open themselves up by outspacing your opponent. He has no safe aggressive options so the best you can do is throw a wall of shenaniganery at your opponent and hope they get hit by it.
2. He has corpse hop stuff involving teleporting through a person on their knockdown allowing you to dash back over them. He also has crossup Atlas Torpedo on knockdown. Pretty good and relatively safe. He's not like WoWo or GL and gets to just walk up and do f3 though.
3. Whiff Punish or if you think they are afraid of HM and ducking. That's it. b2 into special also works sometimes.
4. It works. For the things it won't work on you can just dash under and HM punish their jump in.
5. He's better not being picked.
6. Don't focus on matchups by playing Shazam. Play him because you want to just guess right 100% of the match or lose.

This is the truest statement I've ever read.

 

[shinobispectre]

I'm thinking about picking up this character. I had a few questions though that hopefully some of you guys can answer:

1. How do you go about opening up the opponent outside of HM? I know that d3 is pretty much guaranteed and leads into oki, but anything else?
2. Does he have any crossup tech?
3. In what situations should you use b23?
4. How good is his d2?
5. Is Shazam better when being very aggressive, or being patient, blocking, and waiting to punish an opponent's mistake?
6. What would you say are his 2 best and 2 worst matchups?

Why are you thinking about picking up Shazam? Are you a Captain Marvel fan? Picking up just for the hell of it? I'm not asking this to start anything, Shazam is one of the lower performing characters for good reasons. Heroic Legacy is one of the most prolific Shazams and he stated "He's better not being picked" for a reason. You will encounter difficulties with this character especially against good zoning players and wakeup attacks. Just a heads up, but hey any and all players willing to pickup Billy Batson are welcome to do so. SHAZAM! To answer your questions in my opinion...

1. Heroic answered this well. Have stronger fundamentals than your opponent, gets you to open them more. If you want a specific shenanigan try 2,2 into stuff. People usually expect an HM after 2,2 so then try AC when they crouch. If they backdash, cancel into torpedo and stuff like that.

2. What do you mean by crossup tech? He has more side to side stuff where he switches positions a lot. Outside of the crossup torpedo already mentioned he doesnt have much... I think his j2 is a fantastic crossup though.

3. If you are confident, I catch people jumping or stuff like superman in the air. But this is really gimmicky. Never ever use it when the opponent is close to you and crouching, it whiffs like crazy. Try to use it in the corner sometimes? I find that its crosses up weirdly in the corner. Be careful as the 1,1,2 sometimes keeps the opp in the corner and sometimes knocks them out.

4. I have grown to like it! It catches opponents a lot that are directly above him and air dashers really well. He get's alright damage off of it as well. However it is a bit slow sometimes and do not expect to win against Batman or characters with good air normals if you can't time it well.

5. Watch your opponent and adjust. If your opponent is rushing you down why be super aggressive? Shazam is just asking to eat a wakeup attack then. Shazam is not black and white as you are putting it. Shazam rushing or baiting the opponent to come to him REALLY depends on the player and character combination. I find more success being patient against characters like Wonder Woman, Grundy, or Bane. And being aggressive against characters like Raven, Sinestro, Ares, etc. Being aggressive for me has meant to be prepared for their wakeup attacks, it also has meant more shenanigans... Take it how you will.

6. Yeah pretty much what hero said... You badly want matchup names? Shazam performs well against Grundy and maybe Ares? Performs mediocre against most and does horribly against Deathstroke and Batman/Aquaman. This is my opinion. You are really playing guess the wakeup most of the time and work hard to outhink/guess/predict your opponent.

Do try the character. The game is not undergoing any super heavy changes in the near horizon therefore it is relatively stable. You have more time and options to test out characters and who knows you may end up liking Shazam.

 

[Error]

Shazam's worst MU is the mirror

 

[mfkaoz]

Shazam's worst MU is the mirror

Truly the derpiest match in the game, lol.

 

[BlastX21]

Why are you thinking about picking up Shazam? Are you a Captain Marvel fan? Picking up just for the hell of it? I'm not asking this to start anything, Shazam is one of the lower performing characters for good reasons. Heroic Legacy is one of the most prolific Shazams and he stated "He's better not being picked" for a reason. You will encounter difficulties with this character especially against good zoning players and wakeup attacks. Just a heads up, but hey any and all players willing to pickup Billy Batson are welcome to do so. SHAZAM! To answer your questions in my opinion...

1. Heroic answered this well. Have stronger fundamentals than your opponent, gets you to open them more. If you want a specific shenanigan try 2,2 into stuff. People usually expect an HM after 2,2 so then try AC when they crouch. If they backdash, cancel into torpedo and stuff like that.

2. What do you mean by crossup tech? He has more side to side stuff where he switches positions a lot. Outside of the crossup torpedo already mentioned he doesnt have much... I think his j2 is a fantastic crossup though.

3. If you are confident, I catch people jumping or stuff like superman in the air. But this is really gimmicky. Never ever use it when the opponent is close to you and crouching, it whiffs like crazy. Try to use it in the corner sometimes? I find that its crosses up weirdly in the corner. Be careful as the 1,1,2 sometimes keeps the opp in the corner and sometimes knocks them out.

4. I have grown to like it! It catches opponents a lot that are directly above him and air dashers really well. He get's alright damage off of it as well. However it is a bit slow sometimes and do not expect to win against Batman or characters with good air normals if you can't time it well.

5. Watch your opponent and adjust. If your opponent is rushing you down why be super aggressive? Shazam is just asking to eat a wakeup attack then. Shazam is not black and white as you are putting it. Shazam rushing or baiting the opponent to come to him REALLY depends on the player and character combination. I find more success being patient against characters like Wonder Woman, Grundy, or Bane. And being aggressive against characters like Raven, Sinestro, Ares, etc. Being aggressive for me has meant to be prepared for their wakeup attacks, it also has meant more shenanigans... Take it how you will.

6. Yeah pretty much what hero said... You badly want matchup names? Shazam performs well against Grundy and maybe Ares? Performs mediocre against most and does horribly against Deathstroke and Batman/Aquaman. This is my opinion. You are really playing guess the wakeup most of the time and work hard to outhink/guess/predict your opponent.

Do try the character. The game is not undergoing any super heavy changes in the near horizon therefore it is relatively stable. You have more time and options to test out characters and who knows you may end up liking Shazam.

First off, I appreciate the in-depth response. This was very informative.

I'm interested in Shazam for a few reasons. First, contrary to what you said, I was under the impression that he fared well against Aquaman. He doesn't care about his trait and his horrible wakeups make the oki game even more in Shazam's favor. As a Batman main, this seemed like a suitable alternate to use in this MU. However, if Aquaman is actually one of his worst matchups, then this reason is nill. Second, I think Shazam's combos are the best-looking in the game, and would enjoy using them. Third, I've been interested in picking up a lower tier character and trying to make them viable. Fourth, I'm definently a more patient and conservative player, and it seemed like this type of play is what Shazam demands given his lack of mixups (but I wanted to confirm this with question 5).

I'm still just messing around with him at this point, haven't yet decided if I'm really going to invest.