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Shang Tsung General Discussion

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
So I came up to a conclusion that if you want to play Shang at his full potential you have to use ex morph, otherwise you play him like a without one arm. I think he has no tools to compete with many characters by himself, but can do tons of damage while morphed, what do you guys think?

Disagree and agree.

I think his kit is really solid and allows him to be consistently useful. Zoning is very good, he has armor, it's not a very unsafe character, easy hit confirms into very high meterless damage. A great strike throw because of it. But his mixups aren't great, he doesn't have much pressure outside kameos. Playing with one arm is definitely not how I feel, I think he generally has the pace control full screen and has damage to compete. You can outplay people with this kit.

But I do think there's times where the well can run dry and it can get tough, especially against character/teams that minimize the skull game. And that's where I think the x factor of morph comes in. He can do all kinds of great things with bar and morph and at the end of the day, it's another whole move list to work with mid match. The fact that you can morph back at will really makes it a more favorable tool than in past games, IMO.
 

SixPathsOfHate

Make triple skulls input BDF or DF Hold F
So I came up to a conclusion that if you want to play Shang at his full potential you have to use ex morph, otherwise you play him like a without one arm. I think he has no tools to compete with many characters by himself, but can do tons of damage while morphed, what do you guys think?
Hard disagree. I got to God before I said fuck it but I could've made it to Elder God if I wasnt so tired of the minute long loading times for PC.

I play Shang/Stryker after being a Shang/Kung Lao for a bit before finding KL doesnt really cover Shang's strengths like Stryker can.

My issue with Morph this time around is strictly due to kameos. Some characters require a specific kameo to function at a decent level. While Stryker can always find uses, I would rather not gimp myself by playing a potentially suboptimal team for the chance at a potentially better matchup vs someone who probably knows their character better than I do.. Not only that but I have to find a point to weave it in and my muscle memory is hot ass.

Stryker literally gives him everything he's missing.

  • CONSISTENT mid projectile to force blocking
  • Mix that leaves me plus 6 or 2. The +6 cant be poked out of unless you're JC and if so, it trades in your favor
  • A physical "projectile" that deals with Sub Zero Ice Armor. A good call wastes their kameo, guarantees a ground skull and lets me continue zoning
  • Safe wake up that is also plus.
  • 20% chip out blockstring if I need to do it.
 

G82Boost

I Play Raiden
So I came up to a conclusion that if you want to play Shang at his full potential you have to use ex morph, otherwise you play him like a without one arm. I think he has no tools to compete with many characters by himself, but can do tons of damage while morphed, what do you guys think?
?
 

SixPathsOfHate

Make triple skulls input BDF or DF Hold F
Curious why you think he beats Raiden.

Also, I don't really see how a 2-8 MU even happens in this game, but i think i agree with Shang having an advantage in those.
Curious why you think he beats Raiden.

Also, I don't really see how a 2-8 MU even happens in this game, but i think i agree with Shang having an advantage in those.
Shoulda mentioned it's ordered from easiest to hardest.

Honestly Raiden could be even but I've never felt scared against him. Annoyed at the teleport but if I read it then I can B4+Back grenades on reaction and make it my turn.

You also punish his superfly with ground skull reliably and can instantly stop his charge with ground skulls. I probably have to fight better ones that can space better but outside of the teleport, he doesnt have any other way to contest me with Shang/Stryker. He cant even wake up properly because of double/triple fireballs or grenades so he's forced to eat constant safe pressure that I can break free from to continue mid range zoning.

Him being able to break armor with stormcell is an issue tho. I could probably put him in 5-5
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Shang/Shujinko matchup thoughts

This is not a matchup chart, rather a suggestion of how I feel about the value of Shujinko with Shang in the MU. I think Shang works very well with Shujinko, he never needs him to do good damage outside of Standing 1 punishes and he complements his zoning style with his meditation and various moves that work as zoning tools. Generally, he gives Shang a big damage boost and a zoning tool but there's variety. The fact that you can use him to eat projectiles is a low key great benefit and has usage in any matchup with projectiles, less so with multi hit projectiles like Reiko's. I need way more MU experience but lets get it.

Kitana: C - Needs more practice, Im going to say C because you don't get easy big combos fromà her fan spin, though you can combo into it with apep punch. She could have some dirt. Her kick is a decent zoning tool to cover the air space

Mileena: B - Gets a big damage boost from being able to use ball roll, but ball roll probably won't ever be safe. It's nice that you get her ex projectile but she has options around it.

Tanya: B - Projectile isn't very good, but spin gives good damage combos as well as a good ranged mid check.

Rain: B - Meditation projectile wall is notable and you can convert his damage anywhere. Projectile might have usage

Smoke: B - Anti air is kinda whatever I guess and you don't get the damage boost in midscreen but you do get it in corner. This might be a great tool but because you go invisible on the kopykat but Shang might not be the best to make use of it

Scorpion: A - Big damage, safety and you can convert all of your combos into restands which allow options from your F4 string. Meditation tanks spear. Feels great

Reptile: B - Good damage from a good tool in forceball, but it hasn't clicked for me that great yet. Feels like ground skull does a lot of the same thing as forceball so this might not be a game changer for Shang

Sub: A - The buff to slide was massive, getting to hit them with slide for 11% from full screen without nearly the same risk(or any risk tbh) is awesome. You get the big damage from ice ball

Li Mei: B - Nice damage and a good zoning tool from her projectile

Kenshi: A - I'll say A because I know you can go hard with Sento but tbh I have no experience against real Kenshis or using Sento like that. The sword charge is decent though

Baraka: B - You get a nice projectile and safety from his kopykat but this one might be weaker.

Geras: A - Sand Blast gives big damage combos and Time Stop has all kinds of shenanigans. Sand Blast is a good zoning tool to give Shang even more edge here

Shang: D(C in mirror) - You get a nice version of straight skulls and Shujinko will turn into their Kameo, which isn't very good from what I can tell. in the true mirror of Shang/Shujinko, it gives a damage buff like EX Injection which is probably better.

Shao: B - Damage from his low projectile launch and the overhead. The damage is significant, the moves are slow but the overhead is nice to have.

Sindel: B - You get the damage and a little mixup from B223 that can lead to some damage. Overall solid with meditation wall

Reiko: D - Mimic is okay for some things but Kopycat does his parry and it seems terrible for Shang. Reiko's projectile minimizes the projectile wall. Near useless

Raiden: A - You get his projectile which isn't great because he can just teleport on you but you also get his EX teleport which hits low and is completely safe. Very good damage and safety, and further makes his projectile a risky move to use

Liu Kang: B - More MU knowledge needed, but you can get some damage from EX flying dragon and the low projectile can have use.

Johnny: C(?) - Flash Kick is actually nice, and you can use nut punch to get restand, but it doesn't come easy. If I felt good about getting the +6 from nut punch, I'd say B but it might just not be great for Shang

Kung Lao: C - His projectile is okay but his spin ends up not being useful, despite being a very cool move

Ashrah: B - Combo damage if you have the execution and you have her projectile which you can combo from. Might be an A but more MU needed

Nitara: C - A nice anti air which helps and one you can combo from in some situations but maybe not something to write home about

Havik: A - You get his mid blood ball which is good but you also get his torso spin punches which do great damage and are +4 on block! Awesome, easy to use but also with the cool setup potential

Omniman: A - Safety from clap, and three moves that all hit him out of his Viltrum Stance, allowing for combos from any point of the screen if you have meter. Very good damage boost from apep punch into overhead. Another great one for Shang
 
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Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Tremor stuff

When you ambush with either version of rock punch, Tremor will dash forward

S3~Straight Rock Punch jails at -5 with pushback

S3~Triple Skull, Ambush Up Rock Punch, dash 4~DF1, 4~DF1, F4~DF1, F4~DB3 (414, safe)

You can combo from low gold ball or overhead gold ball from full screen with EX ground skulls or far ground skull~EX ground skull

There are a few different ways to combo from EX injection, as in you do EX injection and launch from it with Tremor ambush
 
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HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus

So I haven't seen this talked about...

Okay everyone how are you actually opening people up they love to block low let's be honest. So let's talk about our staggers what is everyone doing?

I had a match against a Shang main and I was able to keep him guessing and he applauded me for it.

[Curious to see what you all are doing] and in the coming days I will start posting match footage.

"I was trying to armor but I was jailed"
 
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xBlaze_13

Y NO CHAMELEON!?

So I haven't seen this talked about...

Okay everyone how are you actually opening people up they love to block low let's be honest. So let's talk about our staggers what is everyone doing?

I had a match against a Shang main and I was able to keep him guessing and he applauded me for it.

Curious to see what you all are doing and in the coming days I will start posting match footage.

"I was trying to armor but I was jailed"
So I was actually playing against someone else that was trying this with Lao kameo, I did D2 every time and it worked. Maybe he was just not timing it right, but Idk how safe that teleport pressure is.
 

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
So I was actually playing against someone else that was trying this with Lao kameo, I did D2 every time and it worked. Maybe he was just not timing it right, but Idk how safe that teleport pressure is.
If they delay it will get them, that is why I came out of it with 3 to stuff whatever they are trying to do unless I got ex injection. I'm also working on combing off of bed of spikes after that I've got this to work several times on multiple people.

When I lab this I always set the ai to do multiple things so I know what will work. If you know their characters d2 has a crappy hit box go for it.

Their execution might've been off. My button presses are very Krispy.

My tip is learn when all your basic moves recovery end to establish more plus on block moves.

B2, S2, S3 are excellent buttons outside of kombo

Edit: Think of the first part of this reply as Possessed Kenshi in MKX his tele wasn't completely safe thats why sometimes they would come out the sky with the knee instead of the jip. To stuff options.
 
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xBlaze_13

Y NO CHAMELEON!?
If they delay it will get them, that is why I came out of it with 3 to stuff whatever they are trying to do unless I got ex injection. I'm also working on combing off of bed of spikes after that I've got this to work several times on multiple people. When I lab this I always set the ai to do multiple things so I know what will work. If you know their characters d2 has a crappy hit box go for it.

Their execution might've been off. My button presses are very Krispy.

My tip is learn when all your basic moves recovery end to establish more plus on block moves.
Ahh I see, good stuff. You happen to play on PC? I'd love to do some Shang mirrors. Kinda in a crisis of which kameo to use with him.
 

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
Ahh I see, good stuff. You happen to play on PC? I'd love to do some Shang mirrors. Kinda in a crisis of which kameo to use with him.
Unfortunately I'm on xbox and most of the shangs I encounter just zone exclusively.

I'm still at a crossroads with kameo I know I really only use Lao for chip and combo extensions but goro seems to be the best bet.

Sector has sauce as well...I don't really like to use kameos that make me give up my turn for the sake of being safe I want to be plus not safe. Shang doesn't have the best punishes for crouching opponents. S24 isn't the greatest punish even though it's the fastest. The delay between the 2 and the 4 usually gets me killed.(Rambaling Rant)

Goro can make you safe and can easily combo with young shang. Tremor again seems meh to me. Ill be labbing goro more but I almost never use him outside the lab.

Hence I and I would assume others want match footage in this thread somewhere. There is only @Raivazz footage on YT that's quality but that's just one person to go off of.
 

xBlaze_13

Y NO CHAMELEON!?
Unfortunately I'm on xbox and most of the shangs I encounter just zone exclusively.

I'm still at a crossroads with kameo I know I really only use Lao for chip and combo extensions but goro seems to be the best bet.

Sector has sauce as well...I don't really like to use kameos that make me give up my turn for the sake of being safe I want to be plus not safe. Shang doesn't have the best punishes for crouching opponents. S24 isn't the greatest punish even though it's the fastest. The delay between the 2 and the 4 usually gets me killed.(Rambaling Rant)

Goro can make you safe and can easily combo with young shang. Tremor again seems meh to me. Ill be labbing goro more but I almost never use him outside the lab.
See, thats my issue. I do not want to exclusively play him as a zoner. Especially when theres characters that either easily bypass his zoning, or actually outzoned him such as Liu Kang.

I hate that this the most viable playstyle for him. I've been using him with Goro and do relatively well. But Goro has insanely long cool down times and I still get outzoned with this setup. I'm going to try experimenting with Kano.


Edit: Styker seems to work well with him too. Gonna give that a shot as well. I tried Tremor, cant seem to find much sauce with him.
 
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HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
See, thats my issue. I do not want to exclusively play him as a zoner. Especially when theres characters that either easily bypass his zoning, or actually outzoned him such as Liu Kang.

I hate that this the most viable playstyle for him. I've been using him with Goro and do relatively well. But Goro has insanely long cool down times and I still get outzoned with this setup. I'm going to try experimenting with Kano.
Yes I've been out zoned by most of the cast even reptile....soon as they see you pick Shang they automatically think you're just going to zone.

Kano doesn't seem bad it's just knives are a high and so are shangs fireballs unless enhanced. That's why I use Lao.

You can use ball but correct me if im wrong it just knocks them down reseting the neutral minus they are then on getup. (Haven't seen anyone combo off of kano ball)

Strkyer seems okay but the kombo potential isn't really there yet.
 

xBlaze_13

Y NO CHAMELEON!?
Yes I've been out zoned by most of the cast even reptile....soon as they see you pick Shang they automatically think you're just going to zone.

Kano doesn't seem bad it's just knives are a high and so are shangs fireballs unless enhanced. That's why I use Lao.

You can use ball but correct me if im wrong it just knocks them down reseting the neutral minus they are then on getup. (Haven't seen anyone combo off of kano ball)

Strkyer seems okay but the kombo potential isn't really there yet.
Yup, has very few low damage combos with Stryker, but has enhanced zoning and is always safe.

Kano I guess is like a worse version of Styker in this case. Very little combo potential, but makes him safe and is less boring imo. And yeah, ball does simply knock them down, no combo potential there. It serves to just stop the neutral ducking and keep him safe.
 

SixPathsOfHate

Make triple skulls input BDF or DF Hold F
So I was actually playing against someone else that was trying this with Lao kameo, I did D2 every time and it worked. Maybe he was just not timing it right, but Idk how safe that teleport pressure is.
You can make tp pressure safe by doing Close Ground Skull+TP. Knocks them up and away with enough advantage to get a "safe" jump in

See, thats my issue. I do not want to exclusively play him as a zoner. Especially when theres characters that either easily bypass his zoning, or actually outzoned him such as Liu Kang.

I hate that this the most viable playstyle for him. I've been using him with Goro and do relatively well. But Goro has insanely long cool down times and I still get outzoned with this setup. I'm going to try experimenting with Kano.


Edit: Styker seems to work well with him too. Gonna give that a shot as well. I tried Tremor, cant seem to find much sauce with him.
I have been using Stryker for majority of my Shang time. He lets me switch between zoning and scrapping but I am still pretty reliant on zoning because that's just what Shang is built for and I like zoning. Double FB+Back Nades is such a hard field to pass through unless you have a low profiling move.

I also get a consistent armor break setup and B4+Back Nades auto footies due to the stupid far pushback. Stryker also gives you meter build/chip routes.. I honestly think Stryker is Shang's best assist. He even has a way to break Subzero armor and grab Omni-Man outta stance with his down assist.

He lets you take really stupid trades like doing double fireball vs a frost kameo. Just press stryker the moment before your frozen. I love stryker.
 
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SpiceWeasel

Nothing personal mate!
Unfortunately I'm on xbox and most of the shangs I encounter just zone exclusively.

I'm still at a crossroads with kameo I know I really only use Lao for chip and combo extensions but goro seems to be the best bet.

Sector has sauce as well...I don't really like to use kameos that make me give up my turn for the sake of being safe I want to be plus not safe. Shang doesn't have the best punishes for crouching opponents. S24 isn't the greatest punish even though it's the fastest. The delay between the 2 and the 4 usually gets me killed.(Rambaling Rant)

Goro can make you safe and can easily combo with young shang. Tremor again seems meh to me. Ill be labbing goro more but I almost never use him outside the lab.

Hence I and I would assume others want match footage in this thread somewhere. There is only @Raivazz footage on YT that's quality but that's just one person to go off of.
I also use Stryker for the safety and the OH but Goro is just more fun, more combos (especially in young), more Arms and Lore Wise he just belongs on Shangs Side.
Raivazz is great on youtube! and that he can use these oldschool Skin Mods on PC makes me a little bit jealous.
 

HiddenSelectCounterPick

Crossplay Username: ProbablyMinus
Hard disagree. I got to God before I said fuck it but I could've made it to Elder God if I wasnt so tired of the minute long loading times for PC.

I play Shang/Stryker after being a Shang/Kung Lao for a bit before finding KL doesnt really cover Shang's strengths like Stryker can.

My issue with Morph this time around is strictly due to kameos. Some characters require a specific kameo to function at a decent level. While Stryker can always find uses, I would rather not gimp myself by playing a potentially suboptimal team for the chance at a potentially better matchup vs someone who probably knows their character better than I do.. Not only that but I have to find a point to weave it in and my muscle memory is hot ass.

Stryker literally gives him everything he's missing.

  • CONSISTENT mid projectile to force blocking
  • Mix that leaves me plus 6 or 2. The +6 cant be poked out of unless you're JC and if so, it trades in your favor
  • A physical "projectile" that deals with Sub Zero Ice Armor. A good call wastes their kameo, guarantees a ground skull and lets me continue zoning
  • Safe wake up that is also plus.
  • 20% chip out blockstring if I need to do it.
When do you call stryker usually? In the f4 string off of b4? For grenades I mean.