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Shang Tsung Frame Data

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eskuAdradit0

"Thanks" button abuser.
Somberness

Does D+1(blocked) + Soul Steal (blocked) has different properties just because the D+1 was blocked? It seems like the "-12" does not matter at all if you input d1+ soul steal really fast.
 
Somberness

Somberness

Lights
eskuAdradit0 said:
Somberness

Does D+1(blocked) + Soul Steal (blocked) has different properties just because the D+1 was blocked? It seems like the "-12" does not matter at all if you input d1+ soul steal really fast.
Click to expand...
That would be the cancel advantage on block, take d1s cancel advantage and minus the execution of soul steal to figure out the advantage in that situation.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
since gskull is +2 on block the opponent HAS to jump to escape right?even if they do block the poke the gskull will hit them,if not i can d3 gskull forever?

if standing 1 is 1 frame faster then why isn't it used over f4?is standing 1 neutral crouchable?can't it be used to bait a neutral crouch for full combo punish?
 
Somberness

Somberness

Lights
Qwark28 said:
since gskull is +2 on block the opponent HAS to jump to escape right?even if they do block the poke the gskull will hit them,if not i can d3 gskull forever?

if standing 1 is 1 frame faster then why isn't it used over f4?is standing 1 neutral crouchable?can't it be used to bait a neutral crouch for full combo punish?
Click to expand...
D3 cancelled to everything he has can be interrupted. Forward 4 probably hits lower and more importantly combos into skull. It's a very good technique to use a d3 after a blocked ground skull because your opponent could try to interrupt you with a low poke. D3s have great advantage against crouch, so you could just repeat the forward 4 skull again after.
 
D

davidovitch

In Europe!
Somberness said:
D3 cancelled to everything he has can be interrupted. Forward 4 probably hits lower and more importantly combos into skull. It's a very good technique to use a d3 after a blocked ground skull because your opponent could try to interrupt you with a low poke. D3s have great advantage against crouch, so you could just repeat the forward 4 skull again after.
Click to expand...
I've been having some troubles against Shang and I think it' s because of this. After a ground skull, blocked, up close, I try to poke, but I get hit by Shang's attack instead. However it immediately turns into a combo. According to the above quote from Somberness I should be able, if I try to poke after a blocked ground skull and get hit by Shang's d3, to block the follow up f4. However when I try to poke Shang after a blocked ground skull Shang beats my poke with a combo starter. Anyone recognize this?

I'm a bit confused because if I keep blocking after an upskull I'm giving Shang the chance to just do another string into upskull and repeat endlessly. What am I doing wrong?
 
E

eskuAdradit0

"Thanks" button abuser.
davidovitch said:
I've been having some troubles against Shang and I think it' s because of this. After a ground skull, blocked, up close, I try to poke, but I get hit by Shang's attack instead. However it immediately turns into a combo. According to the above quote from Somberness I should be able, if I try to poke after a blocked ground skull and get hit by Shang's d3, to block the follow up f4. However when I try to poke Shang after a blocked ground skull Shang beats my poke with a combo starter. Anyone recognize this?

I'm a bit confused because if I keep blocking after an upskull I'm giving Shang the chance to just do another string into upskull and repeat endlessly. What am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...
Are you playing online or offline?
If offline, simply jump into training mode, pick Shang and finish every string in ground skull, that way you'll feel WHEN does Shang recovery. Now get a second controller and check when do YOU recover.
Remember we're doing some theory fighting, where there's no room for input errors or delay at all, usually differs to reality.
In paper:
Shang F4, GS is at +2 so if Shang D1s or D3s then it's uninterruptable, but only if he does it ASAP and you may only block (blocked Shang D1 is -12, so punish accordingly).
Possible real outcome1:
Shang F4, Gs, is at +2 but "waits" (unconsciously) two or three frames. He then tries to D1 (or D3) and Shang gets hit.
Possible real outcome 2:
Shang F4, Gs is at +2 and D3s inmediately. You're blocking so he's at negative frames. From here on there's a bajillion possibilities, he may block, try to poke again or F4, while you can poke back (he's at -3 or something so there's no room for punishment) or try to go for blockstrings (which is what I'd suggest).


Remember to always block low against Shang. It lowers your hitbox (let's you interrupt strings) and you can fuzzyguard his 3 overheads. It eliminates all of his poking possibilities because D1 is punishable and D3 will lead YOU to go for YOUR blockstrings:
1,2,1 - Last 1 is the overhead.
B+1, 2,1,4 - The 1 is an overhead.
B+2 - 20f overhead.
For string interruption and such, check "Shang strings are GODLIKE" thread.
 
D

davidovitch

In Europe!
Thanks for that explanation. I guess I need to block more in anticipation of his d3, and hope the Shang player doesn't mix it up too much with throws and blockstrings.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
davidovitch said:
Thanks for that explanation. I guess I need to block more in anticipation of his d3, and hope the Shang player doesn't mix it up too much with throws and blockstrings.
Click to expand...
Don't worry i have mixups too!

eskuAdradit0

any time where i'd fancy a plain d3 over d3 gskull?

also is d1 (blocked) GS safe?certainly doesn't look so =/
 
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eskuAdradit0

"Thanks" button abuser.
Qwark28 said:
Don't worry i have mixups too!

eskuAdradit0

any time where i'd fancy a plain d3 over d3 gskull?

also is d1 (blocked) GS safe?certainly doesn't look so =/
Click to expand...
Never tried D1, GS, but tried D1, SS
well (blocked) D1 xx Soul Steal is said to be harder to punish(Belial's guide), couldn't really understand the frame data stuff from Somberness regarding this, but the inputs on a Pad are fucking hard. I had zero problems with it with my DIY hitbox.

D3 on hit, I'd follow up with a F4, GS. D3 on block, I'd just keep blocking.
D3 Gskull does not look that good. I think D4 (blocked), Gskull might be a better choice. Not sure as, I didn't get to implement D4 setups in my game.
 
Saltea Moonspell

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
1 - d1 blocked into GS/SS is a failure - i get d2 always by Kitana whenever i try this. But if someone dosent know the MU, this will work, unless he mashout d2 randomly or d1.
2 - d4 into GS is better because it gives you "safe" distance - pushback. The best option i came up with after blocked d3 is grab. If you see that opponent is poke-happy, jump-kick(crossup).
Next time after blocked d3 there will be fear and ge will block. Unless he has full bar of life and is careless player.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
I mean doing ss on block giving you a chance to do eh ss with armor absorbing whatever they do and having it connect.

I find d1 ss works well after a blocked up skull. I need to see what d1 on hit gives shang.
 
LEGEND

LEGEND

YES!
L0rdoftheFLY said:
I mean doing ss on block giving you a chance to do eh ss with armor absorbing whatever they do and having it connect.

I find d1 ss works well after a blocked up skull. I need to see what d1 on hit gives shang.
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even on hit (D1) SS can be punished or at least counter poked

if you're playing anyone with Shang MU experience never go for D1 links, its suicide
 
LolingOctopus

LolingOctopus

Modest and humble genitalia destroyer
if you can d4 xx SS, might as well do d4 xx close ground skull since if it hits you can SS later on the combo, if its blocked you keep the pressure going.
 
Khaotic_xShangx

Khaotic_xShangx

Fear the Skulls
LolingOctopus said:
if you can d4 xx SS, might as well do d4 xx close ground skull since if it hits you can SS later on the combo, if its blocked you keep the pressure going.
Click to expand...
if you d4 to gs and they block it you are at +2 advantage but you pushed yourself back a little so d1 and d3 won't connect. Only another d4 to special will work but d4 is a 12 frame move so you cant really keep pressure after this, Ive tried it. Its more to get or somebody off you. You can do two consecutive d4 to gs before you are out of range or one d4 to SS. try it but the opponent may jump your second d4 or do armor move and if its a character with a special move with 10 or less frames you will get blown up.
 
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eskuAdradit0

"Thanks" button abuser.
Prinzmetal said:
Hey. I compiled Shang's frame data in this chart + all frame gaps. If you wish a better copy pm me, I've got the office word document. Any feedback is welcomed.
Click to expand...
Now that is what I call amazing. Wish every char had this, we'd see a much deeper MK.
 
Spletty

Spletty

Grandmaster
Prinzmetal said:
Hey. I compiled Shang's frame data in this chart + all frame gaps. If you wish a better copy pm me, I've got the office word document. Any feedback is welcomed.

Click to expand...
Could you pm me this please? Thanks!

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk
 
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