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Setplay in Injustice

Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
@HoneyBee

I swear everybody is too lazy to understand what to do with their character in the corner vs Joker. Nobody knows how or when to pushblock and his corner game is extremely overrated. If pushblocking wasn't a tool in this game then Joker would probably be top three or better in the corner. But since PUSHBLOCKING EXISTS WITH ONLY ONE BUTTON hit severely hurts his corner game. However, the majority of this community is free to Joker in the corner due to their complete lack of experience and understanding, as well as, their inability to block the easiest of things like crowbar overheads. I can't complain though because it gets me wins :joker:

Too funny. Btw Honeybee, are you ever coming back to Ps3? I want to play you again lol
 
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E

EMPR_MURK

Noob
Nightwing has a few things that I discovered that none of us do and its actually very good. Nightwings neutral game is top 6.

Mb stance cancels are OP! They take alot or timing to execute. NW is another character that is very technical. He still has a good amount of tricks but I wouldn't call them mix ups just yet considering he needs meter most of the time.

Im going to b on Xbox today just to show ppl what im talking about.

NW is top 3 oki imo
 
HeroesNZ

HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
  • Harley's 50/50 is wakeup or meaty Play Doctor, like Shazam.
  • Black Adam's 50/50 is MB Divekick in the corner (Unless it's not a true 50/50? Don't really play this character)
  • Nightwing has many psuedo-50/50s (like Batman), such as S2/GP or FK/B2. It's also a guess between whether he'll Staff Spin or Ground Pound off of F213 on block if you're someone who likes to poke a lot.
  • Arrow could have a J2 50/50 in the corner for 50% on a correct guess (not sure if it's ambiguous or not. Need to test it thoroughly on someone). Although I did hit someone with it in game. I was like
 
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SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
Well maybe i do take a little quality into account now that I think about it hehe. But im not worried about how you get out of it. Im looking at what happens when your put into the situation and what happens.
@Vengeance135 what happens when you dont have pushblock and in the corner? Hes a bad character but his setplay is one of the best.
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
EMPR_MURK said:
Nightwing has a few things that I discovered that none of us do and its actually very good. Nightwings neutral game is top 6.

Mb stance cancels are OP! They take alot or timing to execute. NW is another character that is very technical. He still has a good amount of tricks but I wouldn't call them mix ups just yet considering he needs meter most of the time.

Im going to b on Xbox today just to show ppl what im talking about.

NW is top 3 oki imo
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The thing about NW is that all his mixups are reactable so idk lol
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
SonicFox5000 said:
Well maybe i do take a little quality into account now that I think about it hehe. But im not worried about how you get out of it. Im looking at what happens when your put into the situation and what happens.
@Vengeance135 what happens when you dont have pushblock and in the corner? Hes a bad character but his setplay is one of the best.
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It's pretty tough to not have at least one bar in this game with how the meter building system works. Even if you aren't consciously trying to bank one for the situation, you'll generally have it.
That said, Joker has options to blow up people that are always relying on pushblocking, including armored f/b3 cancels or general mixup options on teeth.
Overall, I'd agree with @Vengeance135 that his corner game is overrated, but only because some people think it's the absolute best in the game, where I'd probably only put it at #4 or #5.
 
HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
Vengeance135 said:
@HoneyBee

I swear everybody is too lazy to understand what to do with their character in the corner vs Joker. Nobody knows how or when to pushblock and his corner game is extremely overrated. If pushblocking wasn't a tool in this game then Joker would probably be top three or better in the corner. But since PUSHBLOCKING EXISTS WITH ONLY ONE BUTTON hit severely hurts his corner game. However, the majority of this community is free to Joker in the corner due to their complete lack of experience and understanding, as well as, their inability to block the easiest of things like crowbar overheads. I can't complain though because it gets me wins :joker:

Too funny. Btw Honeybee, are you ever coming back to Ps3? I want to play you again lol
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@Qwark28 basically this. Joker's OTGs are good but once you get me in the corner I can just push block the otg and then I can get out for free if there's an interactable. You can't jump at me cause of d2. Joker's footsies are mediocre at best. So I'm in a good position and the pushblock is worth it. Against Flash, I have ambiguous overhead crossups, otgs, side switch shenanigans, etc. I don't think Joker's corner game is bad. I just think Flash's is better.

And I don't go on psn anymore so you have to ask me beforehand for games lol.

Edit: Before you tell me about how the teeth will blow up pushblock, I'm pretty sure there's ways to deal with that too but I can't remember atm. I haven't played the MU for a long time.
 
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coolwhip

coolwhip

Noob
Batman doesn't need trait bats for his MB grapple ambiguous cross up set-ups. If he can't call bats he can just whiff a normal.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
HoneyBee said:
@Qwark28 basically this. Joker's OTGs are good but once you get me in the corner I can just push block the otg and then I can get out for free if there's an interactable. You can't jump at me cause of d2. Joker's footsies are mediocre at best. So I'm in a good position and the pushblock is worth it. Against Flash, I have ambiguous overhead crossups, otgs, side switch shenanigans, etc. I don't think Joker's corner game is bad. I just think Flash's is better.

And I don't go on psn anymore so you have to ask me beforehand for games lol.
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If we're turning this into matchup talk, your d2 doesn't mean a thing vs nearly instant j1 which comes out at 8-10f tops and has the best hitbox in the game in its category, you cannot react to that. Joker is the one character in this game that you only anti air on a read IF the joker player knows which air normals to use vs which character.

Honestly, after a pushblock midscreen, joker is screwed. In the corner, not so much.

D2 hits from jump distance, teeth force you to move and joker has excelent normals to swat anything that moves

Flash has better mixups, Joker has much more simpler ways, stay put and get set up on or move and get clipped by j3/j1/d2 into a reset.

I didn't compare his corner game to flash, just saying that it's ridiculous to put him at only #7
 
HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
Qwark28 said:
If we're turning this into matchup talk, your d2 doesn't mean a thing vs nearly instant j1 which comes out at 8-10f tops and has the best hitbox in the game in its category, you cannot react to that. Joker is the one character in this game that you only anti air on a read IF the joker player knows which air normals to use vs which character.

Honestly, after a pushblock midscreen, joker is screwed. In the corner, not so much.

D2 hits from jump distance, teeth force you to move and joker has excelent normals to swat anything that moves

Flash has better mixups, Joker has much more simpler ways, stay put and get set up on or move and get clipped by j3/j1/d2 into a reset.

I didn't compare his corner game to flash, just saying that it's ridiculous to put him at only #7
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So are you saying Flash should be higher than Joker on the list or not? SonicFox has Joker at #6 and Flash at #7. I just switched them around cause I'm pretty confident in Flash having better set play over Joker.

Where should Joker be on this list in your opinion?
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
HoneyBee said:
So are you saying Flash should be higher than Joker on the list or not? SonicFox has Joker at #6 and Flash at #7. I just switched them around cause I'm pretty confident in Flash having better set play over Joker.

Where should Joker be on this list in your opinion?
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Joker is a character who has so many gimmicks that you musn't be afraid of doing what looks like dumb shit, and the opponent needs to guess constantly.

He might not be a solid or safe character in the mixup department ( or in general ) but tons of gimmicks and only needing 1 juggle to 100% you is in a league of its own, nobody in this game plays like him.

My list would go like this

Batgirl
Joker
Flash
Bane
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
@StevoSuprem0
While I think Jokers corner game isn't top 5, I really agree with everything else. Well put good sir.

@SonicFox5000

Its rare to not have one bar but lets say you don't. Understanding his setups are crucial to beating him since his setups are situational and what he needs to win in most cases. @HoneyBee said it pretty well though I'm going to add to it. Jokers mixup up game is pretty bad in general. In the corner it is average because it either depends on the situation and/or the character. His otg is pretty limited tbh. All his overheads are reactable, minus the ia jump but ia jumps are punishable which means, depending on your situation, just block high always. The most Joker can do with a low is 15% mb crowbar after b1. When teeth are out everybody always panics when they should just understand the teeths timing and see a a follow-up then pushblock. There are ways to pushblock through teeth and its really not hard. Jokers follow up has to be before teeth pops, not directly before otherwise the pushblock will go through teeth. Sure you can bounce cancel or mb through a pushblock, on read of course, and that will get you some nice damage but then you allowed your opponent to build meter from that damage and your next setup can be dealt with by a pushblock and you are at meter disadvantage now. Jokers corner game has WAY too many variables and highly depend on the situation and the opposing character. Another thing to note is that a lot of people don't take time to learn how to block which is a problem. If anything in this game truly hits unblockable and you blocked one hit it will automatically block the other which means Jokers set up timing has to be on point. I think too many people auto pilot their block game instead of paying attention and then they complain about broken setups. Jokers stuff isn't too difficult to block if you familiarize yourself with his setups and your characters options.
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Qwark28 said:
Joker is a character who has so many gimmicks that you musn't be afraid of doing what looks like dumb shit, and the opponent needs to guess constantly.

He might not be a solid or safe character in the mixup department ( or in general ) but tons of gimmicks and only needing 1 juggle to 100% you is in a league of its own, nobody in this game plays like him.

My list would go like this

Batgirl
Joker
Flash
Bane
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I definitely agree with the gimmicks part bro but thats about it lol
 
Grawlix

Grawlix

Noob
Akromaniac27 said:
If she hits in front, your b1 to b113 will either hit them out of anything they press, or start a frame trap on block. At that distance too, your b2 will whiff punish just about anything. A MB F3 catches many people off guard too and will more than often beat out their follow ups to try to get out. Or in general, she can just play as the cat playing with its food and just back it up slightly to be in that sweet spot range to knock you out of anything you do and push you right back in the corner.

She's a bully, but a fair bully lol. She'll hit you damn hard, and even though the window of escape isn't that wide, she still DOES allow you a window if you're bold and smart enough to get past her
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I agree with you, I was asking rhetorically (nice breakdown btw) to help illustrate my point about how batgirl's vortex is better than the stuff wowo has.
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
Vengeance135 said:
@StevoSuprem0
While I think Jokers corner game isn't top 5, I really agree with everything else. Well put good sir.

@SonicFox5000

Its rare to not have one bar but lets say you don't. Understanding his setups are crucial to beating him since his setups are situational and what he needs to win in most cases. @HoneyBee said it pretty well though I'm going to add to it. Jokers mixup up game is pretty bad in general. In the corner it is average because it either depends on the situation and/or the character. His otg is pretty limited tbh. All his overheads are reactable, minus the ia jump but ia jumps are punishable which means, depending on your situation, just block high always. The most Joker can do with a low is 15% mb crowbar after b1. When teeth are out everybody always panics when they should just understand the teeths timing and see a a follow-up then pushblock. There are ways to pushblock through teeth and its really not hard. Jokers follow up has to be before teeth pops, not directly before otherwise the pushblock will go through teeth. Sure you can bounce cancel or mb through a pushblock, on read of course, and that will get you some nice damage but then you allowed your opponent to build meter from that damage and your next setup can be dealt with by a pushblock and you are at meter disadvantage now. Jokers corner game has WAY too many variables and highly depend on the situation and the opposing character. Another thing to note is that a lot of people don't take time to learn how to block which is a problem. If anything in this game truly hits unblockable and you blocked one hit it will automatically block the other which means Jokers set up timing has to be on point. I think too many people auto pilot their block game instead of paying attention and then they complain about broken setups. Jokers stuff isn't too difficult to block if you familiarize yourself with his setups and your characters options.
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this is more or less ABOUT the mixup. He has legit 50/50s due to changing the timing. He's not a good character, but his Setplay is stupid.
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
SonicFox5000 said:
this is more or less ABOUT the mixup. He has legit 50/50s due to changing the timing. He's not a good character, but his Setplay is stupid.
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Could you give me an example of one of his 50/50s that he could easily pull off and hard to escape? Btw I do agree that some things, like bgb vortexs can be difficult to deal with for some characters but thats all I can think of right now lol
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
Vengeance135 said:
Could you give me an example of one of his 50/50s that he could easily pull off and hard to escape? Btw I do agree that some things, like bgb vortexs can be difficult to deal with for some characters but thats all I can think of right now lol
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Its not about how hard it is to setup, its about ONCE its setup.
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
SonicFox5000 said:
Its not about how hard it is to setup, its about ONCE its setup.
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I got what you were saying but what I'm saying is the majority of his stuff is not as good as people think it is. In other words, overrated. Lol that's all I'm saying. I can agree that if everything is setup perfectly then of course its good but every character that has everything setup perfectly is just as good, if not better. This thread was definitely interesting though. Great read.
 
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