Match-Up Discussion - Kano Seriously, Is Kano useless vs Cassie Cage ???!!!

[Scott The Scot]

I'm pulling this straight out of my ass but could brawler be the better variation in this MU? She has good oki, restand and can convert into full combo from a jik making her a lot harder to anti air

I know very little about cassie I'm just thinking out loud

She doesn't gain much from Brawler except for some additional mixups and slightly better meterless midscreen damage. Her restand is around +1 so she doesn't gain any real advantage. In Hollywoody, you can make the meterless restand +16 so that guarentees a mixup; even if you don't get the tech perfectly your restand will be still be more than +3 but less than +12 ish so you get guarenteed pressure at least - that brings in the conditioning game of continuing pressure vs 50/50 mixup. But Brawler will always only be +1 with no guarenteed followup. Hollywood eliminates your ability to wakeup essentially. I never thought about using JIK more - good thinking! However I still think the pros of Hollywood outweigh the pros of Brawler, but it could be theory fighting and Brawler really is the best but I doubt it lol

 

[MsMiharo]

She doesn't gain much from Brawler except for some additional mixups and slightly better meterless midscreen damage. Her restand is around +1 so she doesn't gain any real advantage. In Hollywoody, you can make the meterless restand +16 so that guarentees a mixup; even if you don't get the tech perfectly your restand will be still be more than +3 but less than +12 ish so you get guarenteed pressure at least - that brings in the conditioning game of continuing pressure vs 50/50 mixup. But Brawler will always only be +1 with no guarenteed followup. Hollywood eliminates your ability to wakeup essentially. I never thought about using JIK more - good thinking! However I still think the pros of Hollywood outweigh the pros of Brawler, but it could be theory fighting and Brawler really is the best but I doubt it lol

You're probably right. I've just dabbled with brawler cause I like how jik leads to 30+% into HKD with a bar since her air normals are good but no kotal Kahn or kung Lao.

 

[Scott The Scot]

You're probably right. I've just dabbled with brawler cause I like how jik leads to 30+% into HKD with a bar since her air normals are good but no kotal Kahn or kung Lao.

It leads to about 40% with a bar actually lol

Brawler is awesome, I really enjoy playing that variation.

 

[Youphemism]

You play Cybernetic...and can't do anything about......Hollywood...................Cassie.............................................................. I'm gonna cry for a few minutes then finish this post.

Ok so some stuff:
Cassie is faster than you in pretty much every scenario up close. Even when you're plus you're not really plus because she can at the very least trade with you meterless in most situations and most of the time her trade will still give her a combo. (The only time she can't is after ex knives where you're plus 5 and she'll have to escape a followup with backdash or meter which both can be baited. Even then I wouldn't use ex knives too much, you need the meter for combos and breaking/defence.) So basically don't let her start pressuring you as you don't want to hold those mixups. Make sure your neutral is good!
Make sure you anti-air her every time you can. The point of throwing knives in this matchup besides zoning is to annoy the opponent and condition them to think you're going to keep throwing knives constantly. Once they become annoyed enough/you've conditioned them enough most of the time they will begin to jump at you and that is when you react with a B1 into a short juggle, end your juggle with ball and get back to zoning since you're at full screen with plenty of advantage. Anyone that really knows the matchup though will just walk and block and hold the 1%s on block because they aren't shit, in which case you've got to beat them midscreen.
Be very careful, play as safe as you can. Her 6 frame flip is always something to worry about so make sure if you're doing something that it's safe because otherwise you're in combo city. Luckily most of Kano's strings are safe as it is but make sure you hit confirm, don't get too complacent with just throwing out a move into laser or ball.
Mix up your pressure as much as possible. He has plenty of normals/strings he can use as staggers, try and bait an unsafe reaction from your opponent and full combo punish them when you can.

Here's some matches I've played with Scott the Scot, take from them what you can

 

[Scott The Scot]

@Youphemism I wouldn't recommend anyone learn from gameplay in which I'm playing lol

 

[Youphemism]

@Youphemism I wouldn't recommend anyone learn from gameplay in which I'm playing lol

But he's learning to play Cybernetic, not Cassie

 

[Scott The Scot]

But he's learning to play Cybernetic, not Cassie

I did not perform to standards in which are suitable to learn either characters from lol

 

[Youphemism]

I did not perform to standards in which are suitable to learn either characters from lol

How well you played as Cassie isn't relevant to learning Cyber though, he'll be learning from my whiff punishes and footsies for example rather than you whiffing a move.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I think it's a bad match up even for Cyber imo. The knives can't keep her out forever and all her normals out prioritize Kano's (except maybe for D4). Not only that but she can just vortex him to death with safe 50/50s.

It's sad how a character how a character who's entirely footsie dependent ends up having worse footsies than a 50/50 character.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I think it's a bad match up even for Cyber imo. The knives can't keep her out forever and all her normals out prioritize Kano's (except maybe for D4). Not only that but she can just vortex him to death with safe 50/50s.

It's sad how a character how a character who's entirely footsie dependent ends up having worse footsies than a 50/50 character.

I don't think knives are supposed to keep her out forever. They control the pace of the match and are also a part of the neutral game. Cassie having a great B1 isn't going help her when she's getting knives thrown at her, she has to play Kano's game for the most part. Her 50/50's in her vortex are not safe (Flip is -30) unless she spends meter (-12) and if she guesses wrong then uh-oh she's full screen and Kano's throwing knives again and she has to hold that. So, she's not just going to "vortex him to death", it's not that simple.

 

[DarkSomethinG]

kano's knifes are just a tool that make cassie take risks in order to get in...no1 said to spam knifes all the time,just the option of throwing a knife make cassie take risks,a risk can be a jump in and kano can antiair pretty nicely with b1 or upball,another risk may be cassie running towards kano and kano has b1,f4 and b2 to control the space or even 112 into an easy hit confirm.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Right. So it's more of a bullying tool than zoning one?

 

[Scott The Scot]

Right. So it's more of a bullying tool than zoning one?

Both.

 

[DarkSomethinG]

its a tool that even when its not used so much makes the opponent make risky plays.just cause its an option.the fact that its a mid projectile and mb the fastest in the game forces your opponent to respect your full screen game.

edit: i think that its better to throw 1-2 knifes when full screen and then try to control the space rather than spam knifes,so as i see it its more of a bullying tool,even tho its also a great zoning tool.

 

[Youphemism]

I think it's a bad match up even for Cyber imo. The knives can't keep her out forever and all her normals out prioritize Kano's (except maybe for D4). Not only that but she can just vortex him to death with safe 50/50s.

It's sad how a character how a character who's entirely footsie dependent ends up having worse footsies than a 50/50 character.

If you think this is a bad matchup for Cybernetic then sorry but you're missing something. It's Cyber's easiest matchup. Knives obviously aren't going to keep her out forever, you use them in this matchup to get as much chip damage in as possible and to bait them into doing something you can take advantage of.
As for normals outprioritizing, that's not a thing. She has generally faster normals but generally shorter-range normals. B1 obviously bring an exception. Thing is, you have an 11 frame F4 to contend with her 12 frame B1, never mind your D4 being pretty good. She might be faster but if you use his walkspeed right you can whiff punish a lot.
If you're getting caught in her vortex a lot you're playing the matchup wrong. She shouldn't ever get that close to you when you have such long range normals and knives to keep her at bay. If you honestly think he has worse footsies you're REALLY missing something. They can compete with each other in footsies, I mean have you seen his F4 and B2 for a start?

 

[pharras]

WOUAW, i didn't expect to have so much answer. thanks a lot all of you.

i'm at work now so i'll see the vid later. i'll try to put some of mine, so you'll be able to tell me what i'm doing wrong. But i think it's a mind problem cause, except for F4, i already use all the tool you have mentioned .

 

[pharras]

I think it's a bad match up even for Cyber imo. The knives can't keep her out forever and all her normals out prioritize Kano's (except maybe for D4). Not only that but she can just vortex him to death with safe 50/50s.

It's sad how a character how a character who's entirely footsie dependent ends up having worse footsies than a 50/50 character.

Exactly my feeling about this MU...When she is half screen to you, she is better than you in every aspect of the game...

I think all the people saying it's free for Kano never play a really good Hollywood Cassie

 

[Youphemism]

Exactly my feeling about this MU...When she is half screen to you, she is better than you in every aspect of the game...

I think all the people saying it's free for Kano never play a really good Hollywood Cassie

It's really not the case, and she does not beat you in every aspect of midscreen. You should be beating Hollywood Cassie Cage as it's a winning matchup for him, fact. It's mutually agreed by every other Kano except you two. What does that tell you?

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

actually all kano variation look good, cybernetic win cassie, you need to win footsie game so far, mixup with neutral jumps after B1 or B1,3 , anyway i think the best variation is comando because she got much mid footsie and oH

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Seriousy any character that wins Cassie's footsie can be top tier already, and adding a mid hitting projectile that knocks down on hit.....

 

[bdizzle2700]

Seriousy any character that wins Cassie's footsie can be top tier already, and adding a mid hitting projectile that knocks down on hit.....

But it doesnt knock down onhit. Unles you mean the ex. And hes not top silly. Just mid tier chilling