Scorpion Sucks, Scorpion Rules - Lets Complain Here

[PimpUigi]

As of the new September 2011 patch, Scorpion will begin reassessment.
He is probably a really good character now that he has a safe special, and a guaranteed pressure killing wakeup attack.
This old post will remain for now.

Top Tier:
Reptile, Cyrax, Kung Lao, Raiden

Upper Mid Tier: (in no particular order)
Kabal, Nightwolf, Johnny Cage, Sub-Zero, Kitana, Sektor, Liu Kang, Jade, Mileena, Skarlet

Mid Tier:
Smoke, Cyber Sub-Zero, Kano, Ermac, Noob, Sonya, Shang Tsung

Lower Tier: (in no particular order)
Sindel, Scorpion, Jax, Quan Chi

Bottom Tier: (in no particular order)
Sheeva, Baraka, Stryker

OK, so I recently won a tournament with Mileena, there were a few well known players there like AceUnlimited and ATL Red, and a pretty decent Jax player who I was surprised to fight in Grand Finals.

Everyone raped my Scorpion in casuals, and everyone got raped by Mileena in the brackets.
Scorpion was originally my main, and I wouldn't consider my Scorpion to be the best, but it's certainly no slouch.

I was promised a tournament game, and NRS has delivered probably the best tournament fighter out there.
Over half the cast is viable enough to win major tournaments with.
However, Scorpion is not among those characters who can place that high.
Every time someone plays as Scorpion, we get to hear Tom Brady say they're crazy.

A little insight on my Scorpion experience...
I play almost exactly like Slips.
AA jump punch to dash ~teleport or AA jump punch into spear combos...
Instant jump kick//+ to teleport, dash , dash , spear, safe jump setup to 50/50
I abuse the safejump setup +~teleport ender for the safe jump into jump punch 50/50 or ~grab.
I have good mind games with hellfire, and the ,,,~spear mind game. Including conditioners like +, or
But yet I still get my Scorpion handed back to me by unknowns and noobs.
Scorpion is a poor character. He really is.
I've made a small list of how to fix him, and make him B tier for sure, with potential for A tier.
This is much better than the C tier that he currently is. Someone of my skill should certainly be able to use him and rape if he was actually good right now.

Again, this is a pretty well balanced game for the most part, with many many of the characters being A/S tier, this is a very competitive game, and yet with Scorpion, I just don't see why NRS chooses to make him suck.
I'm sorry if some of you consider A/S tier characters to be OP...but I think Scorpion should be as good as Reptile, Mileena, Johnny Cage, Ermac, Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Kitana, Sub Zero, Smoke, Kabal, Noob Saibot, Rain, Sonya, Raiden, Nightwolf etc.
It's amazing how many characters are really good in this game, and it's a shame that Scorpion isn't even close to being one of them.

If every single one of these changes were put in, he still wouldn't be S tier.
Just saying.

I get that he's supposed to be a super risky character, with unsafe options and heavy guessing that lead to big big damage. I haven't deviated from this design.
The only option that will be safe now is the :enTakedown, which doesn't even grant a combo or big damage.

Watch this video and you will see not only a Scorpion who's not only similar to me, but this video serves as proof that every single one of the changes I've listed should be implemented.
http://www.justin.tv/slipkicks/b/28922458 Slips vs. Killshot & Jody Tha Great

1. Teleport starts as fast as Sektors.
2. Teleport safe jump removed. Now teleport only grants you enough time for +/+ mixup without the jump.
3. Whiffed spear recovers as soon as the spear is off screen. No need to grant your opponent a full jump punch combo because you missed a spear in a juggle. Honestly. The opponent has enough time to fall, get up, and jump punch you. That's not right.
4. Scaling on + vs grounded opponents removed or + safe on block.
5. Wakeup :enTakedown gets super armor during all active frames, safe on block, and recovery after hit reduced so that Scorpion is at least at neutral on hit.
6. :enSpear has armor for the entire duration of the move.

Slips has had the following positive things to say about these changes.

Thats one reason why better recovery on spear needs to be in. Kitana can square wave to the other side of the screen to avoid the aa spear, run up and do f+2,1. Its almost silly.

Scorp getting his leg takedown safe is just what the doctor ordered for Scorp.

The fact spear has a recovery time worse than the US economy isn't an inherent weakness of Scorp, its just stupid. lol Even if it had the recovery time we are all requesting, all it would do is make his spacing game a lil safer and not be his ass when we miss a spear mid combo. Characters that can teleport and fireball in the air would still have enough time to punish a whiffed spear or at the very least get in for free if it was the way we wanted. The Kitana example is just an extreme measure of how bad it is on whiff.

I agree I think its stupid some characters are getting buffs while Scorp gets passed over. He's the only character in the game that doesn't have a safe special move on block. Ridiculous.

If just those two changes are in, then Scorpion will certainly require reassessing, and the Teleport changes may not even be needed.

Scaling on his overhead should certainly be removed as well, as no other characters have such scaling on their launchers (and someone else has already made a thread dedicated to discussion and evidence on that scaling).

 

[Lyuben]

option missing I think should be there: He does not suck

 

[doomfarmer]

where's the 3rd option for the poll that says NO he's fine the way he is??

I don't think he needs a buff as i've seen some GREAT scorpions. But I can't vote no because you made the "no" option based on a biased opinion. He doesn't suck.

EDIT: d'ah Lyuben beat me to it!

 

[GamerBlake90]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this post 100%. Scorpion does not suck at all. He is very solid, in fact. Quite unsafe, but solid.

Perhaps you need to keep using him to get better accustomed to him or you may just have to change characters. It also helps to use as many others in the roster as possible to gain a thorough understanding of the characters beating your Scorpion so as to formulate better strategies.

 

[Rathalos]

Because if he was kung lao tier online would be completely ruined, well more ruined.

Also hes not that bad. You're crazy.

 

[PimpUigi]

He is that bad. No options he has are safe, he loses all zoning battles, he's a complete guessing game where when he guesses wrong he eats 40% damage, but when he guesses correctly he only nets 30% on average.

He's not even good in close. So he's bad everywhere.

I also play about half the cast, decently at that.
I've taken AC1984's Kung Lao out of tournament with my Mileena.
I'm not exactly a noob here. : \
Scorpion just actually sucks.

 

[Kombo]

Don't ask for a Scorpion buff, you have no idea what you are asking for.

 

[Kwon]

I've faced some VERY nasty Scorpions, it all depends on the player.

As Tom Brady once said in a tournament "It takes a Crazy person to play Scorpion!"

 

[Asodimazze]

Scorpion doesn't need any buff...he already is a good character.
With the buff you ask for, he would be totally broken.

 

[Tim Static]

Regardless, this is how fighting games should be (thus why tier lists exist)

Some are very very good, some are very very bad. Some are ok, some are better than ok.

Not every character can be the best in the game, no?

 

[Lyuben]

He is that bad. No options he has are safe, he loses all zoning battles, he's a complete guessing game where when he guesses wrong he eats 40% damage, but when he guesses correctly he only nets 30% on average.

He's not even good in close. So he's bad everywhere.

I also play about half the cast, decently at that.
I've taken AC1984's Kung Lao out of tournament with my Mileena.
I'm not exactly a noob here. : \
Scorpion just actually sucks.

He has mix ups, a teleport (which can be made safe with meter), an unblockable (hellfire) and good damage (high 30, low 40) from the usual BnB.

Yawn. He may be unsafe but he does not have the match up issues of Sub-Zero and has higher damage.

 

[PimpUigi]

I, like many of you, thought I was just bad at the game when I was a Scorpion players.
I realize though, that the reason I'm so good with good characters, is because I was wearing a metaphorical sandbag in the form of Scorpion.

So, I waited a very long time before making this topic.
I play Mileena, Reptile, Ermac, Sub Zero, Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Smoke, Kabal, Noob Saibot, and my original main; Scorpion.
I can rape with all my secondaries, apart from Scorpion. He's who I pick when I know I want to lose.

I know how to do all of Scorpions advanced tactics. Every single round won is hard work, and luck based.
When people pick Scorpion in tournaments, they get LOL'd out of the hotel parking lot.
Scorpion is crap. Utter crap.
I honestly think Jax is better than Scorpion after seeing the good Jax players.


Edit
F+4 does not grant 40 damage...

 

[doomfarmer]

PimpUigi I don't doubt your abilities, i'm just thinking maybe you're using scorpion wrong.

Not every character is supposed to have safe-on-block strings. Sometimes you have to put more WORK into a character. Or think outside the box. People are so spoiled with these hotfixes when they should be just taking time to figure things out with the game that NRS has given us.

 

[Konqrr]

7. :enTakedown invincible on wakeup, safe on block, recovery after hit reduced so that Scorpion is at +1 or +2 advantage on hit.

:en Takedown IS invincible on wakeup. The problem is that it takes a lot longer than the invinciblity window to hit.

 

[Lyuben]

F+4 does not grant 40 damage...

Boo hoo. Wish I had a 30%+ from a low as subzero. My highest combo midscreen and no reset/meter is 36% and start with a jump in. No lows.

The price you pay is unsafeness. Learn to mitigate this price instead of wishing it away.

And the unsafness of takedown? Ice Slide is much more punishable. It is not safe. It is fine the way it is.

 

[PimpUigi]

:en Takedown IS invincible on wakeup. The problem is that it takes a lot longer than the invinciblity window to hit.

Yeah, I'm aware. I guess I'll change it to note invincible for the entire active duration of the move so as to be more clear to the change.

 

[STORMS]

This thread will die the day that REO starts using Scorpion.

 

[Luija1006]

Your statement and this poll are ridiculous. Scorpion is a solid character, has amazing resets that can deal up to 70% and he is 5/5 with most of the roster. Where is the "No, he is excellent right now, no buffs needed" option?

 

[PimpUigi]

Boo hoo. Wish I had a 30%+ from a low as subzero. My highest combo midscreen and no reset/meter is 36% and start with a jump in. No lows.

The price you pay is unsafeness. Learn to mitigate this price instead of wishing it away.

So you're a Sub Zero player, who wants Scorpion to stay crappy so you can hate on him. Sounds like classic Sub Zero to me.
Sub Zero is actually good, I know because I play as him.
Most characters don't get good damage off of lows, it's true.

Not to mention, Sub Zero can get 13%+35% with his near guaranteed reset, and it's not really risky either.

 

[BATTLEBEAR]

Stupid thread. Scorpion is THAT good. Learn to use him. The FP mindgames are good but really mix it up thats the whole flavor of scorpion. And the vortex situations that you can put your opponent in are pretty nasty.

 

[Lyuben]

So you're a Sub Zero player, who wants Scorpion to stay crappy so you can hate on him. Sounds like classic Sub Zero to me.
Sub Zero is actually good, I know because I play as him.
Most characters don't get good damage off of lows, it's true.

Not to mention, Sub Zero can get 13%+35% with his near guaranteed reset, and it's not really risky either.

When someone gets 13-35 damage it is high.

When someone else is unsafe it is not really risky.

Sure pal. Thats not just you changing words

 

[BookBurning]

Your poll reminds me of those spyware popups I used to get where there's no good option to select from.

You have to realize that Scorpion is a mixup character and because of that he's a gambling character. Obviously a great Scorpion's skill level and mindgame abilities will pull the odds in his favor if he's better than his opponent but he still just is as he is, a mixup character. However he's very rewarding when you pull off a mixup successfully and he has alot of options.

You want the cold hard truth dude; and this is the same truth that applied to me and everyone else when they'd lose with their character.

You need to practice and level up.

I'm sick of the constant buffing and nerfing of characters and I think it's great that NRS pays close attention to their fanbase. HOWEVER, the truth is that most of us, including myself are in no place to give feedback on what should and shouldn't be changed. I play the game and in no way am I into the logistics of it enough to make an educated decision. If you buff one thing it creates a domino affect that applies to the entire character being buffed, and along with this, the characters that that particular character will face.

Constant buffing and nerfing takes away things we have yet to discover with said characters; and we'll never discover them because they've been changed.

No, he shouldn't be buffed. Learn to play as your character the way he is and realize the potential he has instead of having shit handed to you on a silver platter.

We also thought Cyber Sub was low tier at first. Thank god we didn't buff him as well.

 

[Kwon]

Just for interest's sake.

What would you like to see changed/added for Scorpion PimpUigi?

 

[PimpUigi]

Just for interest's sake.

What would you like to see changed/added for Scorpion PimpUigi?

1. First hit of hits mid.
2. Teleport starts as fast as Sektor/Mileena/Smoke.
3. Teleport safe jump removed. Now teleport only grants you enough time for +/+ mixup without the jump.
4. Whiffed spear recovers as fast as blocked spear.
5. Scaling on + vs grounded opponents removed.
6. Hellfire scaling after teleport punch removed (currently does 3% damage instead of 7%).
7. :enTakedown invincible on wakeup during all active frames, safe on block, and recovery after hit reduced so that Scorpion is at +1 or +2 advantage on hit.

Apart from 1. and 5. these are very small changes.
Blocked spear is still extremely unsafe, whiffed spear is still even more unsafe since he'll still have to wait for it to go off screen, hopefully it would no longer gives opponents free jump in combos on reaction to whiffed spear.
The changes are really just to make him be able to avoid zoning as well as other characters who have teleports, grant him one safe wakeup move, and safe jump off teleport is removed to make up for it.

I was very patient, I went to other characters, I owned it up with other characters, I went back to Scorpion a much more experienced player for a couple days. I'm probably never going to play as him again unless he's buffed.
We're not three days into the game thinking Scorpion is meh anymore.
We're four months into the game, and no one takes Scorpion serious anymore apart from newcomers.
AC1984 can easily attest to my Mileena game.

 

[Ayx]

I'm a pretty novice Scorpion player but I've played with some knowledgable Scorpion players (Oddly) the past couple of days. Mostly you have to take advantage of how often your opponent is going to block anticipating the Spear or Teleport moves. I kept teasing the spear a few times then threw him until he got the message that he couldn't predict the grabs anymore, he stopped blocking as often and I started chaining him.

I think Scorpion's basic strategy is pretty similars to Sektor's in terms of baiting and so on. I think Mileena is just a complicated character to go up against so that's why you did better. She seems much more unpredictable than Scorpion.