Match-up Discussion Scorpion Match-Up Chart Discussion

[Pig Of The Hut]

well i updated the chart as a baseline for discussion, some numbers very well might switch as the dust settles on the patch changes.
im not going to be ego filled to say i have all scorpions mus down 100% cause that would be bullshit for anyone to say about there char, especially a dlc char who was called to be banned,been nerfed the buffed. so much has changed.

yea the doomsday mu very well could be 4-6,thats why theres brackets after his score like a few others.
personally i see as a worse version of scorpion vs bane, we have very little to stop doomsday tools while he has plenty to stop ours, he punishes flipkick and mb telepunch, body splash beats tele, that with air grabs heavily limits air normals and of course trait beats all lol
Metzos what do u feel about the mu?

with lex, i had the thinking lex when even with pre-patch scorpion, so with scorpions nerfs i dont know if the mu has swung lexs way or is it still even now that scorpion has his damage back.
Revolver what your thinking on the mu?

batman, his trait ruins scorpion imo, maybe with the trait cooldown will help but i think he just plain out footsies scorpion.
UsedForGlue thoughts?

zod, much like batman i think zods trait is what gives him a slight edge in that mu and for the fact zod is one of the few chars who can still have interactables in there gameplan while against scorpion. trait on,4,4,interact,4, scorpion just has to take it.....no vaseline.
think this mu has more of chance of being even than batman atm
AK Pig Of The Hut SimSim FireBreather thoughts?

this all just my opinion based on information ive gathered from playing the mus, dont take it as fact, i make plenty of mistakes and will hold my hands up with no problem when i do.


with hawkgirl, grrr...i hate the flying bitch. when u say what to do against d1? u mean against someone mashing d1,d1,d1 or doing d1~wing evade, d1~mace etc?

6-4 ZOD

 

[Sgtsnake]

What it comes down to when playing with Scorpion most of the time I think is player skill lvl and character knowledge, and of course the Vortex. (Scorpion forever Solid)

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

All the big bodies minus Grundy are marked as disadv. I believe scorpion has an edge vs all the big bodies. Bane in particular. Scorpions instant j1 overhead works like a charm. He can Tele behind banes charge and punish w hellfire, mb Tele, or spear. Also he can run bane venom time out w Tele shenanigans and vortex.

I firmy believe he beats lex easily. Scorpions trait cancels out Lexs trait, which is half of lexs neutral game. Mb tele to get around mines, and abuse instant j1 tele loops. I've play against kurvingkarmas lex and he has trouble.


Doomsday may be scorpions only big body disadv. But I myself believe its even if anything.

 

[1man3letters]

All the big bodies minus Grundy are marked as disadv. I believe scorpion has an edge vs all the big bodies. Bane in particular. Scorpions instant j1 overhead works like a charm. He can Tele behind banes charge and punish w hellfire, mb Tele, or spear. Also he can run bane venom time out w Tele shenanigans and vortex.

Doombawkz thoughts?

I firmy believe he beats lex easily. Scorpions trait cancels out Lexs trait, which is half of lexs neutral game. Mb tele to get around mines, and abuse instant j1 tele loops. I've play against kurvingkarmas lex and he has trouble.


Doomsday may be scorpions only big body disadv. But I myself believe its even if anything.

scorpions trait does not "cancel out" lexs trait, scorpions trait is not a constant hitbox but ticks of damage.
you have to be hitting lex with trait on and get lucky you hit him on one of the ticks, wouldnt call that canceling out something.
also scorpion has a way longer recovery his trait than lex anyway.
yes if a lex is trying to control space/zoning with mines orbs etc scorpion will be trouble for him, lex rushes scorpion own in the mu not try control space with mines

scorpion can on j1~telepunch on the likes of batgirl also so personally i dont feel being able to do something highly punishable vs the big bodies easier would make a mu clearly his favor.

 

[Gurimmjaw]

yea the doomsday mu very well could be 4-6,thats why theres brackets after his score like a few others.
personally i see as a worse version of scorpion vs bane, we have very little to stop doomsday tools while he has plenty to stop ours, he punishes flipkick and mb telepunch, body splash beats tele, that with air grabs heavily limits air normals and of course trait beats all lol
Metzos what do u feel about the mu?




with hawkgirl, grrr...i hate the flying bitch. when u say what to do against d1? u mean against someone mashing d1,d1,d1 or doing d1~wing evade, d1~mace etc?

Thanks! It might be that way but I do know when Doomsday has his trait active any type of special Scorpion does becomes useless against him during that trait.

Well mainly when they just pressuring with the d1. I would think best option would perhaps be MB F3? If I make a read on them and they do mace charge I know best option seems to be MB B3. I could also neutral jump and punish with a spear. For wing evade I probably have no idea what to do or when she in the air. Teleport punch could work but not when she at fully above the air, so the teleport punch will miss.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Doombawkz thoughts?





scorpions trait does not "cancel out" lexs trait, scorpions trait is not a constant hitbox but ticks of damage.
you have to be hitting lex with trait on and get lucky you hit him on one of the ticks, wouldnt call that canceling out something.
also scorpion has a way longer recovery his trait than lex anyway.
yes if a lex is trying to control space/zoning with mines orbs etc scorpion will be trouble for him, lex rushes scorpion own in the mu not try control space with mines

scorpion can on j1~telepunch on the likes of batgirl also so personally i dont feel being able to do something highly punishable vs the big bodies easier would make a mu clearly his favor.

Maybe Im trippin then but when I played against karma, my trait tick would defeat his armor. same w grundys grave rot. I just seem to have an easier time vs big bodies and I play skilled big body players. Grrs Bane and Karmas lex.

 

[Doombawkz]

Doombawkz thoughts?





.

6-4 Bane.
Good luck teleporting when you can't get off your back. Most Banes won't bother charging in the neutral without a set-up, and people saying how they punish raw charges in the neutral is the main sign of a weak understanding of the character. At level 3 we can literally auto-pilot it out with our f.2.d and you can't do a thing but try and block against it. Past that, we can DP every wake-up and if you clip our armor its a free full punish for us.

Your damage is still sub-par and even moreso with our own buffs. We have quite a few auto-correct tools and lord forbid we get super, you really cant do anything because we can punish it for 54% raw on reaction. As far as instant j.1, d.2 will make sure that you don't do a damn thing in the neutral game and you have no choice but to respect it because, flatly, you don't have anything that goes further fast enough, and your teleports or any other form of punish get beat out as well if not avoided outright. We can always MB f.3 and MB b.3 you, and with the hitboxes they have it'll catch anything you do as well. You guys are basically the new Ares for us. The only thing stopping it from being a 7-3 is the fact that unlike our other 7-3 MUs we can't per se get completely reckless. I can say for sure though that this MU is definitely NOT in scorp's favour in the slightest, or even.

Don't know why you tagged me outside of the obviously ludicrous remark about punish charge in the neutral. The only benefit scorp has is the fact that post-nerf no one played him so the Mu is mostly unknown. However, he is going to have a hell of a time opening up a defensive Bane, and a hard time escaping a careful aggressive one due to his lack of mobility. Also, the idea of "we can run venom time out with tele shenanigans" is defeated by the fact that a proper Bane will probably just loop level 1 and take the better trades if he sees you trying this.

I'll just leave this here. Its not a difficult timing so most any bane can do it, and we are never hurting for meter so the best you can hope for is a good block. Mind you, this is just to show we CAN do it, we have ways of going about it from most of our usual knockdowns and b.23 resets.

 

[1man3letters]

Thanks! It might be that way but I do know when Doomsday has his trait active any type of special Scorpion does becomes useless against him during that trait.

Well mainly when they just pressuring with the d1. I would think best option would perhaps be MB F3? If I make a read on them and they do mace charge I know best option seems to be MB B3. I could also neutral jump and punish with a spear. For wing evade I probably have no idea what to do or when she in the air. Teleport punch could work but not when she at fully above the air, so the teleport punch will miss.

with mb b3 d1 to d1 on block you have a 2 frame window so its tight but very possible yes.
vs d1~mace charge/d1~wing evade, flipkick works nicely, will hit the wing evade and cause the mace charge to whiff, you can also jump back with a air normal to catch the charge

Maybe Im trippin then but when I played against karma, my trait tick would defeat his armor. same w grundys grave rot. I just seem to have an easier time vs big bodies and I play skilled big body players. Grrs Bane and Karmas lex.

yea i looked into testing that before trying to get the normal telepunch to breakthe armor instead of using a bar on MB telepunch, its very random and luck based.
not saying you play unskilled players or your wrong by the way, just talking opinions

6-4 Bane.


Don't know why you tagged me outside of the obviously ludicrous remark about punish charge in the neutral.

i tagged you because i wanted bane information and your more than delivered, thank u.

 

[Doombawkz]

i tagged you because i wanted bane information and your more than delivered, thank u.

Then ask me for info, not opinions lol.

 

[1man3letters]

Then ask me for info, not opinions lol.

your opinion is the information i wanted

 

[Doombawkz]

your opinion is the information i wanted

Oh. Well then... yeah. There it is.

 

[Metzos]

1man3letters, I believe it will be 6-4 DD after the patch as well. Once trait is out its gg's for Scorpion. DD's oki game really hurts Scorpion since all of his wake ups can be punished heavily from DD. As letters said body splash does beat his teleport plus the fact he cannot jump at all against DD because of AS forces Scorpion to play this MU on the ground, which means, he is doomed (no pun intended.)

Spear on block is punished by venom or MB Venom on reaction, Hell fire cannot keep DD out because of his mobility Venom and every poke Scorpion has, can be out ranged by DD. Imo 6-4. Even damage wise, DD out damages Scorpion as well.

 

[1man3letters]

1man3letters, I believe it will be 6-4 DD after the patch as well. Once trait is out its gg's for Scorpion. DD's oki game really hurts Scorpion since all of his wake ups can be punished heavily from DD. As letters said body splash does beat his teleport plus the fact he cannot jump at all against DD because of AS forces Scorpion to play this MU on the ground, which means, he is doomed (no pun intended.)

Spear on block is punished by venom or MB Venom on reaction, Hell fire cannot keep DD out because of his mobility Venom and every poke Scorpion has, can be out ranged by DD. Imo 6-4. Even damage wise, DD out damages Scorpion as well.

would there be any reasons why you wouldnt call it as bad as 3-7?
dd out damages scorpion?? really? we get 39% 1 bar with out a jump in, 43% with a jump in and 50% off stage bounces, whats dd getting now a days?

 

[Metzos]

would there be any reasons why you wouldnt call it as bad as 3-7?
dd out damages scorpion?? really? we get 39% 1 bar with out a jump in, 43% with a jump in and 50% off stage bounces, whats dd getting now a days?

He gets 39% dmg of a body splash with one bar and the fact that MB Venom alone does 19% dmg says alot. Plus the fact DD has a guaranteed interactable after a MB AS if he is near it. I wasnt talking combo wise only. His specials alone deal a lot more damage than Scorpion's.

EDIT: if you use 2 bars he deals 44-45% dmg and his opponent is already cornered.

 

[Minh Giang]

Scorp's wakeup is so shit lol. Knock him down and then crouch, you'll be fine.

 

[1man3letters]

Scorp's wakeup is so shit lol. Knock him down and then crouch, you'll be fine.

yep his wakeup game got a huge hit when the MB telepunch frame advantage was taken away.
saying that though i get a big kick out of using wakeup hellfire against people just sitting there, it has no invincible frames so i woulnt advise people to start doing that i just find it funny when im able to get one off lol

i like how much discussion there has been here since the patch

to continue with that id like to ask Zyphox AK Harold SaJa there opinions on the flash mu, do u think setting flash a 3-7 for the baseline chart was too harsh? what are your thoughts on the mu?

also TakeAChance what are your feelings on the nightwing mu, personally im torn between scorpion losing 4-6 or 3-7

 

[AK Harold]

I'm bad with numbers I always say 5-5 so it is more about player skill/knowledge. It would be very rare in my opinion to have a Flash player that knows and uses everything Flash has in addition to being a superb fighting game player to play a Scorpion player that is equally as prepared and skilled.

 

[SaJa]

I have no experience of the Scorpion postpatch matchup yet

 

[1man3letters]

I have no experience of the Scorpion postpatch matchup yet

thanks for being honest lol
ye same as myself havnt ran the mu since patch, before patch i had it at 3-7 but flash lost a bit of damage while scorpion gained a bit along with the other changes to both characters so its all up in the air till i get to play it some

 

[TakeAChance]

yep his wakeup game got a huge hit when the MB telepunch frame advantage was taken away.
saying that though i get a big kick out of using wakeup hellfire against people just sitting there, it has no invincible frames so i woulnt advise people to start doing that i just find it funny when im able to get one off lol

i like how much discussion there has been here since the patch

to continue with that id like to ask Zyphox AK Harold SaJa there opinions on the flash mu, do u think setting flash a 3-7 for the baseline chart was too harsh? what are your thoughts on the mu?

also TakeAChance what are your feelings on the nightwing mu, personally im torn between scorpion losing 4-6 or 3-7

Nightwing definitely wins. I would put it 6-4 for now. Scorp can compete, but he has a hard time contending with staff stance.

 

[1man3letters]

Nightwing definitely wins. I would put it 6-4 for now. Scorp can compete, but he has a hard time contending with staff stance.

oh nightwing def wins all right ya'll prob never have to deal with me trying to prove its a even mu,thats for sure lol
yea staff stance is a problem for scorpion all right, being able to punish his mb telepunch in both stances a pain aswell :/

 

[rev0lver]

Maybe Im trippin then but when I played against karma, my trait tick would defeat his armor. same w grundys grave rot. I just seem to have an easier time vs big bodies and I play skilled big body players. Grrs Bane and Karmas lex.

I want to play you then. I don't think Scorpion is a problem at all for Lex, you just can't be braindead or anything. You have to be able to get trait out for it to counter it, for example.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I want to play you then. I don't think Scorpion is a problem at all for Lex, you just can't be braindead or anything. You have to be able to get trait out for it to counter it, for example.

Xbl EMPEROR PRYCE scorps isn't my main. NW is but I'm ok w scorps lol.

 

[Shadow316]

Wish I could add to MU discussion, sadly I play online and people rarely play long enough for me to figure out the match/what I'm doing wrong etc.

Played against a GA the other day that destroyed me. Again, I didn't have time to figure out what I was doing wrong, they left after about 3 or 4 games. It was also on Solitude stage which is completely in GA's favour, kept going back to character select to change stage but lost the vote 3 times in a row. GA is my main so I know his strings/what to block and when etc. GA's J3 is so good in that match, into a D1, Ice Arrow, combo. His pressure is so good against Scorp. I felt I got screwed a few times by online though; GA does jump back arrow from crouch, I fuzzy but still got hit.

I have a friend that plays DD and DD doesn't even need to do that much or work too hard to win. His strategy is simple and effective. As someone said earlier, Scorp's wakeups are ass, if they crouch you literally have no wakeups. So against DD in the corner it's round over. I didn't even have chance to MB B3, he was hitting me before I had chance to do anything after getting up. Only reason I win against DD is them guessing wrong in the vortex.

Same friend plays Grundy. I don't find that match too difficult as long as you're patient. Stay full screen, watch for swamp crap (which I was able to teleport on reaction), and be careful when you use Hellfire. The rest is just down to Grundy knowledge. Just be careful when close for his B1(?).

Bane I don't have too much trouble with, apart from the corner, but my corner game in general is ass. I always feel helpless with Scorpion in the corner, need to work on that. I play Bane the same way as Grundy; full screen and wait for charge. I just jump over then MB spear but there's no doubt a better punish than mine.

I don't really like match up numbers so I don't post them, people seem to just take them as fact, would rather hear people's strategies against characters than numbers. My post probably wasn't helpful at all but figured I'd share my thoughts.

 

[RYX]

Bane is easily 6-4. Damage, punishes, footsies, and safety are all in his favor. Scorpion is mildly annoying but high risk vs a high damage punisher is never a good thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if it became 7-3, we out footsie him too with one poke.