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Match-up Discussion Scorpion Match-Up Chart Discussion

Lambro

Using that OTHER green guy
Think of Batgirl as prepatched Scorpion: If you're predictable with your jump/teleport/mix-ups you will eat some damage, especially if she can MB her teleport. At full-screen if she is chucking projectiles, you can TP into vortex. Your goal the entire game is to keep her in the standing vortex.

Close up, j.1 will beat a lot of her approaches as long as you're not predictable with it, and hit confirm from it to vortex. See the pattern?

On wake-up, online players will spam teleport for that invincible start up. Test it a few times to see if they will go for it and punish them for it if they end up going through with it after blocking it. Easiest punish is just TP -> vortex after block. I'm sure you can find more options in the lab. After they stop spamming smoke bomb. You can pressure with your mix-up tools.

As long as you're not auto-piloting through the match, you can and should punish her. Spear.
 
thats sounds good and i was thinkg about the same stuff
just it kinda feels like if i make 1 mistake she will be the whole time in my face and i dont know how to keep her of me since her normals are way better then mines TO HELL WITH HER

but thx for the tips !!
 

Lambro

Using that OTHER green guy
One last thing worth mentioning, is when she's in your face she can start overhead with the cartwheel, and more likely than not, she's going to go low after. On block this is positive for her so take care.
 

Lambro

Using that OTHER green guy
Here is my current match-up chart post patch with a reason why. Feel free to discuss.

Flash- 5-5 Speed buff makes him a huge threat but at long range you have more options to soften him up.

Nightwing- 5-5. Staff-stance will outreach everything you have but has trouble with TP. Escrima stance still has trouble with J.3 but lack of NW players makes this match-up hard to practice.

Batman- 4-6 Trait makes this a really difficult match up for Scorpion. Scorpion needs to abuse Batman's relatively weak wake-up options while Batman is going for the same thing. His trait helping him reach this goal more easily makes ninjas salty.

Cyborg- ?/? I don't know if I have seen/played any Cyborg players since they took away his instant air soul fist.

Green Arrow- 4-6. His j.3/ d.1-> ice arrow shuts you down pretty hard. His wake up options are weak allowing you to mix him up, but his neutral game is terrifying to approach.

Superman- 4-6. Long range, you can keep him from doing any of his usual shenanigans and come out on top. Close range, Scorpion has some issues with the f+2,3 strings. Jump back 3 used to be an option but the hitbox shrunk making this a less viable option. Long as you maximize your damage or lead to vortex, this is winnable. If you drop everything, get ready to eat 40%+ per mistake. On a good Superman you can really afford to make 5-6 mistakes max before you lose.

Raven- 6-4. Raven has a strong zoning game and just a decent close up game. Scorpion has a great anti-zoning game and a good/great close-up. Nuff said.

Aquaman- 4-6. Can't jump on him. His shield causes rolling on TP. He outpokes you. Water takes out fire. Go for that knockdown and hope you guess right. You can also go into vortex on obvious zoning/poking from Aquaman.

Wonder Woman- 5-5. Great mid range/close up game. Tons of damage. Whip stance at mid-screen/shield-stance in the corner is nothing to scoff at. Take advantage of Scorpion's mobility to balance this match up.

Hawkgirl- 4-6. Want to see a character zone Scorpion? Flight mace throwing makes Scorpion need to approach more traditionally. A good zoning HG will mace you out of your neutral jump TP on reaction. The chance of wake up swoop move also makes pressuring HG a pain in the ass but this can be countered by j.3 into combo.

Shazam- 7-3. Shazam can't really do much to you. Long range, he'll jump, psycho crusher, or TP forward. Spear/Hellfire takes care of two of these options, and a succesful block leads to vortex. Its an uphill battle for Billy.

Green Lantern- 5-5. A smart Hal will punish you. Hard. You do however shut down any attempts of Oa's rocket shenanigans he might try to do and you can punish him just as hard for any mistakes he makes. You can't YOLO vs Hal and he can't do that against you either.

Bat Girl- 5-5. I was originally going to say this is 4-6 but with more practice, you realize your skillsets are really similar, and you would fight this a lot like the GL match up. Guess right, guess smart, and don't get punished.

Lobo- 5-5. Momentum based match up. The main-man once in will hurt you. A lot. Unfortunately for him thats our gameplan too. You do have your usual tools to soften him up from a far to make up for the discrepancy in damage Scorpion does.

Joker- 6-4. Joker has a hard time opening you up. You have lots of options to open him up. He is going to struggle to get in, and by the time he does, you're already winning.

Harley Quinn- 5-5. Got to know the match up. Harley has a similar playstyle once again to Scorp and will pressure you to open you. She also can get real high to approach any TP approaches. If played patiently however, this is once again very momentum base due to Harley's okay wake-up options.

Solomon Grundy- 5-5. Assuming Grundy isn't a psychic and stops all your approaches with d.2 and air grab (that means don't be predictable), this is winnable by zoning him out with Hellfire, spears and TP. You're looking at 40%+ damage if you let him get in though.

Zod- 6-4. Zod? He has a pretty good zoning game, and an okay close up game with Zod charge. Keep Zod Charge in mind, and make his life difficult.

Lex- 4-6. Yes, Lex actually wins this. Jump 3 will knock you out of your air attacks/tp. Trait up makes him damn near unapproachable. Corps charge will punish everything.

Catwoman- 4-6. Slight mid-range zoning, lots of damage. Momentum based. She also outreaches/outdamage Scorpion.

Deathstroke- 6-4. Slade has some good wake up options but you eliminate his gun game almost entirely. If he goes for any guns, show him what a vortex looks like.

Ares- 6-4. His gimmicks hurt. So does ours. He can't zone you so he'll try to TP and catch you surprised. Can't really surprise you if you seen it more than a dozen times. Still, pressure happens, so make sure to keep him on his toes instead.

Killer Frost- 5-5. Momentum based match-up again. You want to hit her into a vortex and she wants to make you open up for a 50/50.

Doomsday- 4-6. His trait laughs at you. His d.2/jumping dive attack takes away any aerial superiority you have. Overall, you just have to work really hard to amount to any offense. This is an uphill battle.

Sinestro- 7-3. Sinestro's close game is not great. He has footsies at sweep range but once you're in there, he has to just take it till he guesses right. If he tries to zone you? All his specials have really bad recovery...

Black Adam- 4-6. Black Adam does a lot of damage. Keep in mind to block low from a far, and block high when he's close and get ready to work for your damage. A defensive/turtling BA will be a little bit of a struggle to open up. Be wary of wake-up cage.

Bane- 4-6. Armor up grabs, and armor in general makes Scorpion sad. Jumping attacks into TP will make this fightable, but get ready to see that grab animation where he breaks you Dark Knight rising style a few times.

Change list (7/10/2013)
Ares from 5-5 to 6-4
Frost from 4-6 to 5-5
Black Adam from 5-5 to 4-6
Catwoman from 5-5 to 4-6
Aquaman from 3-7 to 4-6

Change list (7/9/2013):
Superman from 5-5 to 4-6
Hawkgirl from 3-7 to 4-6.
 
Superman, Black Adam and Catwoman are all 4-6 at best for Scorps. They have safer options, control more critical parts of the fight, and have to make 2-3x the number of mistakes as Scorpion.
 

Lambro

Using that OTHER green guy
Keep in mind I don't think this is the absolute Match-up chart list. I may be up-playing how well Scorp does against the higher tier characters just a bit. I wanted to get the ball moving on a discussion so we can further bring more knowledge to the ninja everyone loves to hate.
 

PANDA

*Supreme Member*
Change:
Batgirl 4-6
Aquaman 4-6
Bane 7-3
Black Adam 4-6
Frost 5-5
Catwoman 4-6
Ares 6-4

I agree with the rest...
 

Lambro

Using that OTHER green guy
Change:
Batgirl 4-6
Aquaman 4-6
Bane 7-3
Black Adam 4-6
Frost 5-5
Catwoman 4-6
Ares 6-4

I agree with the rest...
Lets go through this together, Batgirl I had 5-5, you had 4-6: With similar gimmicks I was curious what you think Barbara has the slight edge.

Aquaman I was also swaying back and forth between 4-6 and 3-7. Ultimately, it feels like t-rex arms vs trident makes this match-up a bit silly. I will probably change it to 4-6 once I spend more time with some Aquaman players. Hm..

Bane we had a huge discrepency. 7-3 vs my 4-6. I can argue that the venom armor in his moves makes most approaches dangerous for Scorpion, I was wondering what tech you have to destroy Tom Hardy.

Black Adam, in hindsight I can agree with due to the high damage output difference. 20% average combo vs 40% average combo and you're probably right.

Frost is a touchier one. On one hand I feel like frost has safer pressure, on the other, jump back 3 negatives half the options. I guess its whoever set up their game first. I'll make this change.

Admittedly a lot of people have told me that match-up for Catwoman so I will update for consensus base.

Ares with his pseudo-zoning and not really being able to do shenanigans on scorps. I'll make this change too.
 
u rly think batgirl is 5-5 or 4-6 ???
i would go even further and say its 7-3 once she gets in its basically over nothing scorp can do about other then to burn meter for pushbloch. her teleport beats our and she beats out hf on reaction.
yea true that we beat her fireballs on reaction too but she doesnt wanna to zone us she will get as fast as possible she wanna get in on us so to use hf is kinda like meehh
i kinda feel like if she corners me its basiclly over !
yea wakeup flipkick can get u out but its still a guessing game for us its not a free wakeup.
i mean maybe panda is right and its rly just a 6-4 matchup but to me it kinda feels like pls dont get near me and u guys know it will happen sooner or later.
it could also be that i lack of scorp exp. and just dont know how to deal with her bs most of the time but atm right now it just feels bgirl7- 3 scorp i hope u guys can pove me wrong and show me thats 6-4 or even 5-5.

pls dont hate on me guys for my posting :)

and btw whats also on my mind and would be very helpful is videos of cetrain matchups
i think it would help any scorp player to see those videos so if anybody got a very good scorp and knows a person that plays x char where scorps in disadvantage and would post them so that we can probably see what to avoid and what exactly to do on this cetrain chars.
i would acutally see a good scorp in a video w. the 1.05 patch because it kinda feels like nobody plays him anymore because hes not braindead now !!!!
SO PLS IF ANYBODY GOT SOME FOOTAGE OF SCORP 1.05 PATCH VERSION PLS PLS PLS POST !!!!!!
 

Lambro

Using that OTHER green guy
IDP, please wait till EVO to see. Patch is still 2 weeks old, and yeah, a lot of people like REO dropped him since they took away some major parts about him.

As for Batgirl, I'll look into the match-up more during the week and let you know what I come across. I believe there are one or two Batgirl players at the break, and I'll see if I can get some insight from them.
 

Colbydakidd

Colbydakidd(XBL) Wolfsidious(PSN)
Batgirl gives me a lot of trouble as well. Rundown Supes definitely is something i need to find ways around. This chart was really useful. Played Scorpion before the patch, and i still like him, regardless of the nerfing he endured.
 
Come on dude dont give up show us that ur not a braindead scorp like the most of them who dropped him because he got nerfed.
I just play scorp for a few days man like him so much i rly felt in love with this char no matter the nerf i try to put him in the lightspot.
So pls contribute to make him better!!!!!

TOday i played a very good batman i lost to him every match but i think its a 5-5 match. I kinda feel if my execution was better i would be able to compete with him.
Reason for that is if scorp can keep batman out and get that 1 hard knockdown or vortex setup the whole match goes in his favour.bat s only options are to slide out was is punishable rly hard if he miss it the other option he got is meter burn b3 or f3 and still u can punish him for that i think dont quote me on that one the last option is just to block so he got no real escape without fearing a punish. If we get pressured by bman all u have to do is waiting for his crossup j2 cause thats what most bats love and punish dat and his 2 2 3 i think where he roll back u just need to learn to block dat move that i think the whole secret for this matchuo as far as my experince goes if i find anything new i will keep u on dat guys so far my 2 cents for this matchup
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
nightwing could be a...problem.

also i think scorpion 7-3 over shazam being mentioned is very harsh on poor little billy
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Premium Supporter
I dont think Shazams a bad MU,,,,,, i cant really explain why not, but from playing scorpion i say it could be 5-5, def not 7
 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
So all was going well in ranked until I came across my first Martian Manhunter that wasn't mashing, obviously this is day one but what do you do versus his overhead teleport it looks hella punishable but pushes him back far on block and neither b2 or b12 were able to punish him. I suppose he realized I couldn't figure out what to do against it cuz he spammed it really hard at the end barely beating me, it was really frustrating.
 

Lambro

Using that OTHER green guy
So I guess the hot topics are Shazam/MMH vs Scorps. I've been taking a break from the game for a bit to clear my head. Back-ish now.

How good/bad does the MMH match-up look?

On a related note, I'm still looking for these magical Shazams that are giving Scorpion a hard time.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
So I guess the hot topics are Shazam/MMH vs Scorps. I've been taking a break from the game for a bit to clear my head. Back-ish now.

How good/bad does the MMH match-up look?

On a related note, I'm still looking for these magical Shazams that are giving Scorpion a hard time.

dont think anyone said shazam gives scorpion a hard time,
just that it prob isnt a 7-3 mu as you original posted as your base score your starting mu chart.

havnt played a MMH yet, only came out eu today and wasnt able make casuals at my local spot today.
my friend plans on maining him so ill be getting plenty offline exp in the mu soon
 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
Is Green Arrow a bad matchup? He punishes mb teleport and flip kick and has the ability to just stay in and wreak havoc on slow ass scorpion with his low overhead or low low arrow mixups. This was probably the first match where I've felt completely helpless.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Anyone have an updated match up chart for Scorpion?

well there's no "community chart" at moment, just personal charts that have been posted by various members.

after "the big patch" hits on the 1st oct i was going to update the op with a base level chart since RYX doesnt look like he'll be editing it anytime soon (think he got banned and hasnt signed in since??) to get discussion going more

but a thing i learned from MK9, it prob best to stay out of mu chart threads, becomes a pissing contest most of the time and thats not my thing especially if facts endup getting ignored etc etc etc.
alot of people dont get mu is tools vs tools not well i play my friend billy kinda attuitude.


but sad fact is at the moment mk9 had more active tourny going baraka players than injustice has scorpion players,
not that online only players opinions arent valid but im sure u know what i mean when the characters player base is so small/inactive its hard to get into talk about breaking down mus etc etc,especially where with scorpion its the special case of plenty of people just being butt hurt hes in the game at all.
hopefully after the patch scorpion players might come out of the woodwork a bit more to help the character grow.

ahh now that rant is over, ive been labing up hawkgirl/scorpion mu a good bit since we were last talking, think i now agree with the score u originally gave on the mu...still bitch is annoying though lol
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
hey Espio that you were asking for a current mu chart updated the non-edited op with a new baseline chart from the numbers from the different character charts on TYM as well as some player input. :D
 

Gurimmjaw

Earthrealm
Well was looking through match up chart a few match ups I do not understand....why is the match up vs Doomsday that bad? It don't seem real bad definitely still not in Scorpion's favor or even, but I don't think it that bad but I agree with all in the list of the 7-3 match ups.

In the 6-4 match ups why is vs Batman, Zod, and Lex bad? Just wondering but the rest is all good just curious on a few of these is all.

Now 1man3letters - I was playing against a Hawkgirl player well someone who I usually play Espio and wondering what can Scorpion do against Hawkgirl's pressure? Like for example if the Hawkgirl is doing d1 what should I do?
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Well was looking through match up chart a few match ups I do not understand....why is the match up vs Doomsday that bad? It don't seem real bad definitely still not in Scorpion's favor or even, but I don't think it that bad but I agree with all in the list of the 7-3 match ups.

In the 6-4 match ups why is vs Batman, Zod, and Lex bad? Just wondering but the rest is all good just curious on a few of these is all.

Now 1man3letters - I was playing against a Hawkgirl player well someone who I usually play Espio and wondering what can Scorpion do against Hawkgirl's pressure? Like for example if the Hawkgirl is doing d1 what should I do?

well i updated the chart as a baseline for discussion, some numbers very well might switch as the dust settles on the patch changes.
im not going to be ego filled to say i have all scorpions mus down 100% cause that would be bullshit for anyone to say about there char, especially a dlc char who was called to be banned,been nerfed the buffed. so much has changed.

yea the doomsday mu very well could be 4-6,thats why theres brackets after his score like a few others.
personally i see as a worse version of scorpion vs bane, we have very little to stop doomsday tools while he has plenty to stop ours, he punishes flipkick and mb telepunch, body splash beats tele, that with air grabs heavily limits air normals and of course trait beats all lol
Metzos what do u feel about the mu?

with lex, i had the thinking lex when even with pre-patch scorpion, so with scorpions nerfs i dont know if the mu has swung lexs way or is it still even now that scorpion has his damage back.
Revolver what your thinking on the mu?

batman, his trait ruins scorpion imo, maybe with the trait cooldown will help but i think he just plain out footsies scorpion.
UsedForGlue thoughts?

zod, much like batman i think zods trait is what gives him a slight edge in that mu and for the fact zod is one of the few chars who can still have interactables in there gameplan while against scorpion. trait on,4,4,interact,4, scorpion just has to take it.....no vaseline.
AK Pig Of The Hut SimSim FireBreather thoughts?

this all just my opinion based on information ive gathered from playing the mus, dont take it as fact, i make plenty of mistakes and will hold my hands up with no problem when i do.


with hawkgirl, grrr...i hate the flying bitch. when u say what to do against d1? u mean against someone mashing d1,d1,d1 or doing d1~wing evade, d1~mace etc?