General/Other - Ninjitsu scorpion in the neutral

[Eddy Wang]

D4 on hit into run up throw conditions them to stop blocking after they get hit by d4, which opens for F2, and B3~ex teleport as options.


teleport is +18 on hit, considering mostly all scorpion pressure options will come at 12 frames at max, anything they try to mash when they get hit by the teleport will get beaten out by your fastest attacks, such as 114, 123, 214, B321, F2, B4, d4.

The only attacks that don't jail out of tp are, crossup jumps, F4 and throw, yet throw is one of the best options because it conditions them to press buttons to break a throw, or to neutral crouch to avoid it, which is a hard read.

On these situations, they get more open to F2, and B3~extp, and 214 resets

So every time a teleport hits, you get to land a free throw, or another full combo punish.

 

[Hor_PeT]

D4 on hit into run up throw conditions them to stop blocking after they get hit by d4, which opens for F2, and B3~ex teleport as options.


teleport is +18 on hit, considering mostly all scorpion pressure options will come at 12 frames at max, anything they try to mash when they get hit by the teleport will get beaten out by your fastest attacks, such as 114, 123, 214, B321, F2, B4, d4.

The only attacks that don't jail out of tp are, crossup jumps, F4 and throw, yet throw is one of the best options because it conditions them to press buttons to break a throw, or to neutral crouch to avoid it, which is a hard read.

On these situations, they get more open to F2, and B3~extp, and 214 resets

So every time a teleport hits, you get to land a free throw, or another full combo punish.

Thank you it made it even more clear.
Speaking about throw you made me more curious: what is specific with throw? is it too slow? or just special? I did not see the frame data for throw ever just heard a "1". But it would go against the hit advantage.
Although I experienced that after the teleport I can't throw the opponent immediately if he is not blocking just stand (simple can't reach and whiffs) - but what if he tries to hit me with a 10 frame punch while I try to throw? Will he hit me out of the throw?

 

[Hor_PeT]

@Hor_PeT

Get creative with your offense, because you don't have unreactable 50-50s to work with.

Hey. I re-read the thread as I am a little bit stuck against my friend Kotal Kahn. We play a lot with each other and we quite knew each other very well. I play quite well against him but he started realizing that I am not a dirty character and he can be dirty with his sword combos.

Your words are true.. Need to be creative as Ninjitsu have no "easy" mixup to throw to your opponent. Especially when he knows you very well.

When I switched to Inferno and dropped F2, B3 I felt that the 50/50 is much easier to play even if I am tired than playing Ninjitsu for hours against the same opponent (I won easily as he forgot how to defend against it as he got used to against Ninjitsu).
With Ninjitsu I do not have a script to play and I do not have a best practice to play (I am fighting for space all the time and try to whiff punish Kotal which is not easy as his string moves accross the screen + sword combo).
I think I will change my variations time to time as it brings fresh air.

Any tip to be more creative? I think I just need clear brain and accept that after 2-3 hours I can't be the same creative and after going on patterns (as I am getting tired) it sucks. His patterns are not sux as he does the blockstrings blindly and up to me how to manage. I am happy not playing against Lao or Liu Kang for hours hehe.

I feel that playing Ninjitsu is quite mind-demanding. Not just going forward and pressure with muscle memory.

 

[Ze Dingo]

Hit the lab and learn to punish Kotal's sword attacks. All of them are minus and only the DB2 is safe, but that can be backdashed. Try to find patterns in your friend's offense. Try to shred his wake ups with F2.

But.

Hit the lab.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Hit the lab and learn to punish Kotal's sword attacks. All of them are minus and only the DB2 is safe, but that can be backdashed. Try to find patterns in your friend's offense. Try to shred his wake ups with F2.

But.

Hit the lab.

O yeah I tried all his sword attacks in the lab (and watched punish video) but I didn't find hard punish against it. Little punish is punish too I know but it seems I am not in favor if I want to block out my opponent. Well it seems much better than odds against Lao and Liu Kang pressure lol.

DF2 is safe on block (-5) and yes I could poke out him with D1 (probably you meant it for backdash too) but the timing is very strict and if he chooses the other 2 sword attack I am hit anyway (probably better just block it out then continue with +5).

But I tried that backdash too and lol it is very nice and easier to execute than D1 poke (and I see the "reversal" text after doing it). The funny thing is that in the corner if he is close to me I can backdash too and can punish with S1, F2 and others (mid screen I can't reach him with F2).
I didn't know much about that reversal backdash. I need to explore it.
On the other hand if he uses other 2 swords I am hit so it is a more risky way for a reversal than blocking (and I can't really punish him either for taking that risk).
EDIT: I could do reversal teleport too but the timing is not easy and doesn't work in the corner. There are possiblities.


DB2 is -15 on block I could punish it only with takedown. F2 is 15 and doesn't work of course. I do not really like takedown as he can continue pressure after -5 (I have read that it is +5 if he doesn't wake up but I do not risk and block anyway on wake up) - but better than nothing I guess.

DB1 is -18 and in theory I can punish it with F2 but in reality it seems very difficult as I am pushed back and need to realize the type of attack too not to mess up with DF2. I could do it now 1/10 and I didn't need to think against AI. Takedown work properly in that case too.

I often run to him and throw as a "punish" but this is risky too if he launches the next string (F2 likes it though) - probably the direct punish is better if it is available less guessing.

The difficulty in these attacks that he can do it from 3-4 different combos which are low/high then one of the swords. Not easy to block it on reaction need to guess a lot.
On the other hand he needs to guess much less against me which is not fair lol. Life is not easy..

Anyway thanks for the tips I will practice punishing in the lab and make it familiar enough to be effective.
If you have any more tips according to my reactions please do not hesitate to write it down.

 

[Ze Dingo]

Punish DB1 with takedown, it's the only thing you can do because of the ridiculous pushback on it. War God shouldn't be that hard of a matchup for Ninjutsu, imo, but start learning Hellfire as well, some of the tools Hellfire offers are pretty awesome.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Punish DB1 with takedown, it's the only thing you can do because of the ridiculous pushback on it. War God shouldn't be that hard of a matchup for Ninjutsu, imo, but start learning Hellfire as well, some of the tools Hellfire offers are pretty awesome.

Yeah it's not that hard just after 2-3 hours when I am getting tired lol (we often play 4-5 hours a night).
Well, hellfire is quite different. I like it but it's not that honest neutral play as Ninjitsu.
I haven't learnt FRBC yet. Not bad but I feel that it is missing from his game. I switched to Ninjitsu as i can execute it easier and instead of extra execution skill I rather need my mind.
I will play hellfire and inferno as well. At least more variations.

Thanks again for the tips.

 

[GQJ]

Does anyone mind explaing how Ninjitsu is meant to set up counterhits? I read in a thread that this varoation is meant to be footsies and counter hit based.

Thanks.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Does anyone mind explaing how Ninjitsu is meant to set up counterhits? I read in a thread that this varoation is meant to be footsies and counter hit based.

Thanks.

My explanation: look for opportunities when the opponent is about starting his string from a certain range and you can (counter) hit it with your F2/B2 (as your swords will hit him earlier).