What's new

Scorpion Changes I'd Like To See

In most cases it’s not worth it. They’re +7 after a blocked f3,4. They have space to breath if they were getting pressured. If you’re good at f/block it makes sense to go for it.

I don’t see many Scorp players go for f4,3 myself included. Characters with 7f jabs can punish that string too.

All it takes is practice. I’m better at throw tech than I am at neutral crouch punishes, but I’m getting better at it.
F42 is my risk taking move - yes they can punish but do not do it. Especially if I do only F42 and they wait the 3rd. But I do it once / 3-4 matches so even 1 opponent can not dowload me lol.

Well flawless blocking is not difficult though just I think most people is already scared when F3 comes ("what to do what to do") and they do desperate things. This is not high level though lol.
If they simply know all the options and do not panic but READ the F34 they could be able to do it. It is difficult during the heat of the battle. I could not really do this against Scorpions as I was rather busy with reading stagger lol.

Throw tech is my obvious weakness as I was never really challenged hard neither in MKX and IJ2 (I was always with the more grappler mentality than my opponent)... Until I got used to the IJ2 throw tech (throw button) in 1,5 years here in MK11 I started pushing throw to come up.
Even nowadays lol.

I just do not think about that option and do not react it (and let the throw button up). It is the same as Flawless block.. Need to read it.

But my friend was always good at throw tech (in mkx and mk11) as I ALWAYS tried to throw him and he ALWAYS mashed buttons and that was his luck. Here it is the same.
In IJ2 it was a f.up as mash could not save you lol.

I think it is just need more time to everyone to get used to the game.. throw tech.. flawless block especially. I try to focus to the obvious flawless blocks now (e.g. Shao F34, Jaqui B34) but it just do not come out of muscle memory without concentrating to the move... It will in few months I am sure.
 
Just make his teleport cancel a bit more negative so the throw/string mixups arent so damn oppressive. It would still leave him in a desirable position where he can shimmy and attemp to bait buttons and neutral ducking. Or increase the spacing on cancel so it's not an immediate mixup. My main issue with Scorpion how easy it is for him to enforce respect. He should have to work for conditioning and not just spend a bar to enforce his gameplan from anywhere on the screen.

And come on guys, I know we can always "learn the matchup" but when people consistently switch to Scorpion when they get bodied and see immediate succes despite it being a pocket pick. Keep his teleport a mid, keep his strings, keep his KB's, keep his godlike f3, his strong pokes with pushback. Just do something about teleport cancel so it's not a free 33/33/33 from anywhere
Any changes to his cancel kills the variation. If it costs 2 d/meters it’s buns like the beta. If it cost 1 d/meter 1 o/meter it hurts his damage/combos.

I’ve had consistent success just using d4 after I see he canceled.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Any changes to his cancel kills the variation. If it costs 2 d/meters it’s buns like the beta. If it cost 1 d/meter 1 o/meter it hurts his damage/combos.

I’ve had consistent success just using d4 after I see he canceled.
Poor Scorpion, he has to give up something to gain an advantage :(
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Embrace the salt and keep crying for nerfs sir. TP cancel is already a neutral situation btw.
Yup, making a suggestion for a perfectly fine adjustment that doesnt break either variation and still leaves him with options upon teleport cancel. Man I need a Kleenex cause my tears are everywhere right now
 

BuffRaiden

Nerf Erron's F4 Already
Just make his teleport cancel a bit more negative so the throw/string mixups arent so damn oppressive. It would still leave him in a desirable position where he can shimmy and attemp to bait buttons and neutral ducking. Or increase the spacing on cancel so it's not an immediate mixup. My main issue with Scorpion how easy it is for him to enforce respect. He should have to work for conditioning and not just spend a bar to enforce his gameplan from anywhere on the screen.

And come on guys, I know we can always "learn the matchup" but when people consistently switch to Scorpion when they get bodied and see immediate succes despite it being a pocket pick. Keep his teleport a mid, keep his strings, keep his KB's, keep his godlike f3, his strong pokes with pushback. Just do something about teleport cancel so it's not a free 33/33/33 from anywhere
No. Just stop. One thing is not going to fix anything. I started off maining Scorpion and switched to Kabal because of how boring Scorpion is to play. The f3 should be more negative. He has the best special in the game, so death spin should be punishable and have more start up - if you use it correctly there's no way to approach him.

The spear was changed because a bunch of srubs complained that they were getting punished for throwing it out, but it should never be used as a risk free projectile.

There is no fun to be had in playing the matchup. A real fix would be to eliminate air teleport entirely. He'd have to stay on the ground to play his mind games at the very least. As of right now if a he connects a jump kick on block, there are so money possibilities it's basically lights out.

There are hard counter for Geras, Jaqui, Erron etc. This character does not have a counter.

Your inability to accept much needed nerfs is a sign of laziness. You don’t want the teleport to be high because we can neutral crouch. Here’s an idea. Don’t play like a maniac then and play footsies like the rest of the cast. If you’re going to play like Scar did at combo breaker, you should get blown up for it.

And to the guy saying, get good at throw techs. Oh please. They’re 50/50’s anyway. Even Waz teched under half of them.
 
Last edited:

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
The most important part of facing Scorpion is your defensive skills as a player. Get comfortable with throw tech, neutral crouching throws, TP punishment, counterpoking with strings, etc.

If you suck at throw tech, he’ll eat you alive. Most players start to mash d2 trying to beat the throw. They’ll end up eating a b1 to the face.

Every time I face a Scorpion I make it a point to interrupt f3 stagger with a string. Ive been using Noob lately, so I’ll interrupt with 2,1,2, which leads to 300+ damage. This will discourage him from staggering with f3 knowing he could get blown up like that. It also forces him to use f3,4 and that’s an easy f/block.
Thank you for bringing more sense into this discussion. Scorpion has a hard time against anyone who has a set of balls on them. Eating f34 over and over is worth blowing up the f3 stagger every time.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
No. Just stop. One thing is not going to fix anything. I started off maining Scorpion and switched to Kabal because of how boring Scorpion is to play. The f3 should be more negative. He has the best special in the game, so death spin should be punishable and have more start up - if you use it correctly there's no way to approach him.

The spear was changed because a bunch of srubs complained that they were getting punished for throwing it out, but it should never be used as a risk free projectile.

There is no fun to be had in playing the matchup. A real fix would be to eliminate air teleport entirely. He'd have to stay on the ground to play his mind games at the very least. As of right now if a he connects a jump kick on block, there are so money possibilities it's basically lights out.

There are hard counter for Geras, Jaqui, Erron etc. This character does not have a counter.

Your inability to accept much needed nerfs is a sign of laziness. You don’t want the teleport to be high because we can neutral crouch. Here’s an idea. Don’t play like a maniac then and play footsies like the rest of the cast. If you’re going to play like Scar did at combo breaker, you should get blown up for it.

And to the guy saying, get good at throw techs. Oh please. They’re 50/50’s anyway. Even Waz teched under half of them.
Yet Waz has Scorpion as 8th at highest.

Character doesn't need nerfs except making tele cancels more costly. He's a character that's overpowered at beginning and intermediate level but just solid at the very top level. Nobody at the highest level of this game agrees with you on this.
 
Thank you for bringing more sense into this discussion. Scorpion has a hard time against anyone who has a set of balls on them. Eating f34 over and over is worth blowing up the f3 stagger every time.
That is when a Searing Rage player can risk a F32 into full combo especially if the F34 KB is depleted. :)
When I do it and hit I happily see the opponent D1/duck animation blowing up by the 2nd hit - it is a valid and good risk/reward option after conditioning.
 
Last edited:

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
No. Just stop. One thing is not going to fix anything. I started off maining Scorpion and switched to Kabal because of how boring Scorpion is to play. The f3 should be more negative. He has the best special in the game, so death spin should be punishable and have more start up - if you use it correctly there's no way to approach him.

The spear was changed because a bunch of srubs complained that they were getting punished for throwing it out, but it should never be used as a risk free projectile.

There is no fun to be had in playing the matchup. A real fix would be to eliminate air teleport entirely. He'd have to stay on the ground to play his mind games at the very least. As of right now if a he connects a jump kick on block, there are so money possibilities it's basically lights out.

There are hard counter for Geras, Jaqui, Erron etc. This character does not have a counter.

Your inability to accept much needed nerfs is a sign of laziness. You don’t want the teleport to be high because we can neutral crouch. Here’s an idea. Don’t play like a maniac then and play footsies like the rest of the cast. If you’re going to play like Scar did at combo breaker, you should get blown up for it.

And to the guy saying, get good at throw techs. Oh please. They’re 50/50’s anyway. Even Waz teched under half of them.
Personally, I think a lot more could be justified, but I also respect the community who love Scorpion. I do see he's a footsie character, so he should have most of his conditioning tools intact. I do think he should have to work for it though. I'm really against these autopilot characters who get a lot for free. On a Competitive scale? My single tweak should make him much more balanced. However, here's a few things I think are overlooked when people discuss Scorpion:

Pokes:

His pokes are good. I know his d4 is on the slower side but it has a HUGE range, low profiles and its most underrated feature - pushback. I can't stress it enough how strong this is. Point blank d4 it's not really a deal breaker, but if Scorpion knows how to properly space it he will always be able to walk backwards and whiff punish any attempt at closing in on him as well as making tripguarding jumps less efficient. I really don't like having pokes on block work to your advantage. The reason I despise the pushback so much is how poke wars most of the time favor him. Having your d4 blocked pushes them out of throw range eliminating the threat of a reversal throw

Safety:

Self-explanatory. Hit confirms for days. Pushback on several of his key buttons and strings really make you question whether or not it really is your turn. He - for the most part - resets to a distance that favors his excellet shimmy game. Reborn is hella safe. Safety is not the problem itself. I dont want him to be punishable on everything (he is on a few strings actually), I just want his turn to be over for good when he commits to a string - like a majority of the cast. He should not be able to get jumps and uninterceptable distance after blocking key strings. To me, this is the bigger issue.

We can all get better at the matchup, and that's why I only suggested a minor tweak to his teleport cancel, Dont make it punishable, but provide some distancing - and that's not a bad thing for Scorpion either. It's still a way to get out of corner if you should find yourself in that situation and you can still play his unrivaled shimmy game. It should be noted that strings like f423 can actually be punished with a jabstarter of 7 frames

The chip-lord:

I remember seeing the dev's during a Kombat Kast explain the meter-system, and how they felt getting chipped to death was something they needed to get rid of. That's true for the entire cast. Johnny's gameplan is no longer centered around that, neither is Liu Kang (well to an extent). Scorpion is somewhat of an exception. His spear dance thingy is soooooooo damn disgusting in clutch situations as it hits 400000 times and has a decent startup. Covers so much of the screen as well and can be canceled into from a poke. I think the main issue with this move is, well there's not really a way to counter this. It just eats your Last Breath and shits in your face. f32 into spear dance with buff is more than 10 % chip. It should be noted you can flawless the 2 in the string. He could just cancel from a single hitting move and achieve practically the same result. In a game where you can never count someone out as long as they have a pixel, Scorpion has sort of a get around for that.

Thing is, all these things add up to him being good, but I do think the chip-damage could be looked at. It just doesnt feel good to be killed by him mindlessly throwing it out in the open like that. He's one of the more 'honest' top tiers and I dont want him to be nerfed into oblivion
 
Last edited:

BuffRaiden

Nerf Erron's F4 Already
Personally, I think a lot more could be justified, but I also respect the community who love Scorpion. I do see he's a footsie character, so he should have most of his conditioning tools intact. I do think he should have to work for it though. I'm really against these autopilot characters who get a lot for free. On a Competitive scale? My single tweak should make him much more balanced. However, here's a few things I think are overlooked when people discuss Scorpion:

Pokes:

His pokes are good. I know his d4 is on the slower side but it has a HUGE range, low profiles and its most underrated feature - pushback. I can't stress it enough how strong this is. Point blank d4 it's not really a deal breaker, but if Scorpion knows how to properly space it he will always be able to walk backwards and whiff punish any attempt at closing in on him as well as tripguarding jumps. I really don't like having pokes on block work to your advantage. The reason I despise the pushback so much is how poke wars most of the time favor him. Having your d4 blocked pushes them out of throw range eliminating the threat of a reversal throw

Safety:

Self-explanatory. Hit confirms for days. Pushback on several of his key buttons and strings really make you question whether or not it really is your turn. He - for the most part - resets to a distance that favors his excellet shimmy game. Reborn is hella safe. Safety is not the problem itself. I dont want him to be punishable on everything (he is on a few strings actually), I just want his turn to be over for good when he commits to a string - like a majority of the cast. He should not be able to get jumps and uninterceptable distance after blocking key strings. To me, this is the bigger issue.

We can all get better at the matchup, and that's why I only suggested a minor tweak to his teleport cancel, Dont make it punishable, but provide some distancing - and that's not a bad thing for Scorpion either. It's still a way to get out of corner if you should find yourself in that situation and you can still play his unrivaled shimmy game. It should be noted that strings like f423 can actually be punished with a jabstarter of 7 frames

The chip-lord:

I remember seeing the dev's during a Kombat Kast explain the meter-system, and how they felt getting chipped to death was something they needed to get rid of. That's true for the entire cast. Johnny's gameplan is no longer centered around that, neither is Liu Kang (well to an extent). Scorpion is somewhat of an exception. His spear dance thingy is soooooooo damn disgusting in clutch situations as it hits 400000 times and has a decent startup. Covers so much of the screen as well and can be canceled into from a poke. I think the main issue with this move is, well there's not really a way to counter this. It just eats your Last Breath and shits in your face. f32 into spear dance with buff is more than 10 % chip. It should be noted you can flawless the 2 in the string. He could just cancel from a single hitting move and achieve practically the same result. In a game where you can never count someone out as long as they have a pixel, Scorpion has sort of a get around for that.

Thing is, all these things add up to him being good, but I do think the chip-damage could be looked at. It just doesnt feel good to be killed by him mindlessly throwing it out in the open like that. He's one of the more 'honest' top tiers and I dont want him to be nerfed into oblivion

I played reborn before switching to Kabal. I thinking scorpion destroy Kabal. There's really no way in with death spin at max distance.

I tend to use Baraka or Geras against searing rage, because of their constant ability to punish death spin and punish hard.

Using it at poke range is not so bad, because you do that against Geras and you eat 40 percent. But at sweep range it' basically free chip against most of the cast.

People defend it because it's -20, but let's be honest, with that buff this move is just silly.

It's very reminiscent of Shinnok's hellsparks even though it doesn't launch.
 
Personally, I think a lot more could be justified, but I also respect the community who love Scorpion. I do see he's a footsie character, so he should have most of his conditioning tools intact. I do think he should have to work for it though. I'm really against these autopilot characters who get a lot for free. On a Competitive scale? My single tweak should make him much more balanced. However, here's a few things I think are overlooked when people discuss Scorpion:

Pokes:

His pokes are good. I know his d4 is on the slower side but it has a HUGE range, low profiles and its most underrated feature - pushback. I can't stress it enough how strong this is. Point blank d4 it's not really a deal breaker, but if Scorpion knows how to properly space it he will always be able to walk backwards and whiff punish any attempt at closing in on him as well as tripguarding jumps. I really don't like having pokes on block work to your advantage. The reason I despise the pushback so much is how poke wars most of the time favor him. Having your d4 blocked pushes them out of throw range eliminating the threat of a reversal throw

Safety:

Self-explanatory. Hit confirms for days. Pushback on several of his key buttons and strings really make you question whether or not it really is your turn. He - for the most part - resets to a distance that favors his excellet shimmy game. Reborn is hella safe. Safety is not the problem itself. I dont want him to be punishable on everything (he is on a few strings actually), I just want his turn to be over for good when he commits to a string - like a majority of the cast. He should not be able to get jumps and uninterceptable distance after blocking key strings. To me, this is the bigger issue.

We can all get better at the matchup, and that's why I only suggested a minor tweak to his teleport cancel, Dont make it punishable, but provide some distancing - and that's not a bad thing for Scorpion either. It's still a way to get out of corner if you should find yourself in that situation and you can still play his unrivaled shimmy game. It should be noted that strings like f423 can actually be punished with a jabstarter of 7 frames

The chip-lord:

I remember seeing the dev's during a Kombat Kast explain the meter-system, and how they felt getting chipped to death was something they needed to get rid of. That's true for the entire cast. Johnny's gameplan is no longer centered around that, neither is Liu Kang (well to an extent). Scorpion is somewhat of an exception. His spear dance thingy is soooooooo damn disgusting in clutch situations as it hits 400000 times and has a decent startup. Covers so much of the screen as well and can be canceled into from a poke. I think the main issue with this move is, well there's not really a way to counter this. It just eats your Last Breath and shits in your face. f32 into spear dance with buff is more than 10 % chip. It should be noted you can flawless the 2 in the string. He could just cancel from a single hitting move and achieve practically the same result. In a game where you can never count someone out as long as they have a pixel, Scorpion has sort of a get around for that.

Thing is, all these things add up to him being good, but I do think the chip-damage could be looked at. It just doesnt feel good to be killed by him mindlessly throwing it out in the open like that. He's one of the more 'honest' top tiers and I dont want him to be nerfed into oblivion
Baraka has the same chip lord title I think.
DS does not combo from pokes so that's the luck lol.

Well if "your" character can not do anything about it to punish it somehow - it is an underdog position and makes the variation system sense (probably against Geras, Baraka the Reborn is better as he could never use SR tools anyway).
Worst case you can use your +20 frame to go in for a pressure.

DS does 90 damage unbuffed (140 for 1 bar) - and you are full screen (potential buff up lol). You can decide if it is too op for being -20 on block or not.
Against characters who really can not do anything about it (just go in for pressure) it is really valuable. Against characters who full combo punish it it is a probably low reward/high risk move in neutral.
And if the Scorpion players drop it mindlessly it might be not in max range and even more punishable (for more characters). But yes against that kind of player you can be a little bit more scared in footsies game. Besides teleport and other good footsie tools. :)

NRS will decide how op is too. Until that... Geras is the solution for all the pain.

I agree that he is pretty honest character. Probably 95% of the players do not agree.
I think tele cancel is dirty though. It can really mess people up and do dirty stuff which might be too good for 1 def bar (and I do not think primarily to mixup teleport lord). But Searing Rage is honest.

However I do not really use DS in neutral (outside of chip and occasional combo ender against Jaqui). I think good footsies can be more rewarded without DS. Scorpion can whiff punish and anti air with much more damage than with DS. He just does not desperately need that move to be better than "vanilla" Scorpion.

I just started using against Jacqui but she can punish me with Bionic Dash into pressure (or with B2 if I am not maxed range) so even against her it is not ideal. But better than against Scorpion lol.
 
Last edited: