Scar Asks: Do u feel MK11 should have variations?

[MadPropz101]

No, that work should be put into making a few new characters instead.

 

[Gooberking]

I don't think there are any negatives from my POV. It's done nothing but good for me, and I don't think I would have played near as much of the game without it. I certainly wouldn't be using who I'm using. I don't use any of the variations that I'm supposed to be using.

 

[ShadyHeart]

Variations are one of the best parts of the game. They just didn't do a great job on some of them.

 

[Raidenwins]

I thought the Variations system was a welcome addition to Mortal Kombat. It brought some much needed variety and depth of gameplay. Whatever few downsides it has are dwarfed by its upsides. I would welcome it again in the next installment of MK.

 

[VSC_Supreme]

Variations weren't bad, but i Think they should go with two variations for the next game. This isn't the first time other games have tried different kind of mechanics for characters (things like Turbo, or different kind of Special bars, or P4A shadow and regular characters) and I think it would add depth to the game to do a similar system where you can choose a variation and how you'll play them.

 

[blue dragon]

No Variations
Less Characters
More DLC

= MK11

Nicely put, add balance so the player is the deciding factor, here are characters that would fit the mk scene, from the movie. "300". The immortals, and from the movie "dracula untold" the impaler, both would look neat

 

[Xerclipse]

No, because they couldn't handle the variation system with balancing. The tier list was really unstable for this game. For most of the viable characters, there was like only variation you could use and the rest were bad, or there were two good variations and one bad one. Balancing is really hard to do.

 

[trufenix]

Ya really think eliminating variations would increase cast size or make it easier to balance?

 

[dubson]

if variations, lower amount of characters

 

[dubson]

Ya really think eliminating variations would increase cast size or make it easier to balance?

I would hope so.. It has essentially what, 99 characters (technically) this way? That's really hard to balance when they are just slight variations of one character. Too many characters can be a problem in ultimately having a well balanced game, imo.

With less characters, it would naturally be easier to balance. I think if they do variations again, the game should have less characters than this game does now.

I always liked smaller rosters... Less is more, imo. Makes it easier to put more detail/changes into the game overall.

 

[Hara-Killer]

Yes . But change to 2 variations only , or mix , u chose the moveset ..... MK 11 only in 2020 , that s wise cause MK 11 and the Next movie come out together, 2018 is for the upcoming Horror Figthing Game , Injustice DLC's ... Maybe KP4 ????

 

[ErMac333]

I'm a casual player, and I'll probably never be able to point out the difficulties that the variation system implies in balance, and technical gameplay overall, aside from bringing some pretty useless variations according to some players reports (really, the most inconsistent things I was able to point out was Kitana's mournful and other buff variations such as Reptile's and Ferra/Torr's). Although as this same casual player, I'm inclined to like it due to bringing many new moves and gameplay possibilities previously not seen in the past title.

That said, I think NRS could do a better job in balancing if I'm to consider everything players have been saying, but for ME, it looks pretty decent as it is, and it wouldn't hurt to take one variation away for the sake of simplicity and making it a better quality thing, after all, the team must be already putting new ideas in the table for the next game as we speak and as they even develop I2, and I'm pretty sure a lot of efforts went into developing this gameplay format, so they'll need more resources for the new stuff (konquest maybe?).

Anyway, we'll see. I like what the variation system did, they expanded my favorite kharacter's movesets in ways I wouldn't imagine before, so yeah, I'm ready for more.

 

[AGRxShiroKuma]

Even though cryomancer and unbreakable are in grandmasters shadow I still appreciate the effort they put in to giving him 3 cool variations. I have my defensive variation, I have my offensive damage variation, and I have my trap variation. I say yes bring back variations but try not to leave one variation on top while the others suffer. I know that's tricky to manage but I think they can pull it off with mk11.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Ya really think eliminating variations would increase cast size or make it easier to balance?

It does when existing characters from previous games return with legacy curve.
NRS makes everything dificult because they redraw every game from scratch, so characters who had previously a balanced move set got scrapped again.

For example, i would prefer MK9 version of Kung Lao over MKX version, also I prefer MKX version of Scorpion over any of his past versions in any game.

Some people said Sonya in MKX might just been even better than her MK9 version, i can't disagree with that.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Ya really think eliminating variations would increase cast size or make it easier to balance?

It does when existing characters from previous games return with legacy curve.
NRS makes everything dificult because they redraw every game from scratch, so characters who had previously a balanced move set got scrapped again.

For example, i would prefer MK9 version of Kung Lao over MKX version, also I prefer MKX version of Scorpion over any of his past versions in any game.

Some people said Sonya in MKX might just been even better than her MK9 version, i can't disagree with that.

 

[trufenix]

It does when existing characters from previous games return with legacy curve.
NRS makes everything dificult because they redraw every game from scratch, so characters who had previously a balanced move set got scrapped again.

For example, i would prefer MK9 version of Kung Lao over MKX version, also I prefer MKX version of Scorpion over any of his past versions in any game.

Some people said Sonya in MKX might just been even better than her MK9 version, i can't disagree with that.

I appreciate the logic, but there is no evidence to support your claim. Tekken, KoF, Street Fighter, DoA, etc are all huge legacy series and none of them are perfectly balanced. None of them even shipped balanced before DLC.

Unless the goal is to make the exact same game (ie: an expansion pack) there is no guarantee the old content will play nice with the new. Thus, imbalance is always introduced into a new game.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I appreciate the logic, but there is no evidence to support your claim. Tekken, KoF, Street Fighter, DoA, etc are all huge legacy series and none of them are perfectly balanced. None of them even shipped balanced before DLC.

Unless the goal is to make the exact same game (ie: an expansion pack) there is no guarantee the old content will play nice with the new. Thus, imbalance is always introduced into a new game.

Tekken is a well balanced game IMO, at least in the console versions.

TTT2 was probably by far the most balanced game.
SF4 did a good job with Ultra lastest patch, although there was still characters that couldn't compete with obvious disavantages, but it wasn't just as overwhelming. can't talk about DOA, as far as KoF goes i know it has a sort of Kusanagis and Yasakanis being top tiers, due the small jump 50/50s that includes blind crossups.

Tekken has with Mishimas but those characters aren't some that you can pocket main and put on a top 8 expecting to win.

I'm more interesting to see how Injustice 2 will be, the game is being made with legacy curve support and all looks pretty good so far, kinda wish they did the same with MK, but lets see how this goes, and how the balance will be in the beginning and in the end of the game cycle.

 

[trufenix]

I would hope so.. It has essentially what, 99 characters (technically) this way? That's really hard to balance when they are just slight variations of one character. Too many characters can be a problem in ultimately having a well balanced game, imo.

If MKX has 100 characters and 20 are broken (positively or negative) it is 80% balanced. If it had 10 and 2 were broken, it would be the same.

With less characters, it would naturally be easier to balance. I think if they do variations again, the game should have less characters than this game does now.

Do you think MvC3 / KoF / SFxT / SF4 would have been more successful competively with smaller casts? Would KI / Skullgirls / SF5 have been less succesful with bigger ones?

I always liked smaller rosters... Less is more, imo. Makes it easier to put more detail/changes into the game overall.

What are your top 5 most detailed fighters?

 

[trufenix]

Tekken is a well balanced game IMO, at least in the console versions.

TTT2 was probably by far the most balanced game.
SF4 did a good job with Ultra lastest patch, although there was still characters that couldn't compete with obvious disavantages, but it wasn't just as overwhelming. can't talk about DOA, as far as KoF goes i know it has a sort of Kusanagis and Yasakanis being top tiers, due the small jump 50/50s that includes blind crossups.

Tekken has with Mishimas but those characters aren't some that you can pocket main and put on a top 8 expecting to win.

You prove my point. If legacy design made balance easier or better, there would be no top tier Mishima's in tekken, no iori's in KoF, no Akuma's in SF. But none of those games successors shipped more balanced than the previous. SF5 is not better balanced than SF4, it just has a smaller pool of top / mid / bottom tier characters to pick from.

All legacy design has done for balance in those games is provide players a "starting point" for creating their tier lists.

 

[Eddy Wang]

You prove my point. If legacy design made balance easier or better, there would be no top tier Mishima's in tekken, no iori's in KoF, no Akuma's in SF. But none of those games successors shipped more balanced than the previous. SF5 is not better balanced than SF4, it just has a smaller pool of top / mid / bottom tier characters to pick from.

All legacy design has done for balance in those games is provide players a "starting point" for creating their tier lists.

Mishimas are intentionally designed to be top tier in tekken, same for Kusanagis in KoF.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

If MKX has 100 characters and 20 are broken (positively or negative) it is 80% balanced. If it had 10 and 2 were broken, it would be the same.

Currently MKX looks more like 10% broken, 40% balanced, 30% "still viable but got outshined" and 20% garbage

 

[dubson]

If MKX has 100 characters and 20 are broken (positively or negative) it is 80% balanced. If it had 10 and 2 were broken, it would be the same.

Your logic is highly flawed and reaching to the highest degree. There's so many holes in it, I don't know where to begin. What a gross, vague, broad overstatement.

It's easy to see your a debater to the highest degree, and debating with you looks to be like giant a waste of time. I don't think you even know what you're debating; just debating.

Anyways, I stated my opinion.

 

[Addhad]

Ok variations are fine and good bc they can have so many ideas for characters but they just can't stack an entire char. So gives me more freedom. Loyalist won't get bored. The balancing is fine well would be fine if they fire paulo but ya know. Imagine quan with all varas in 1 or scorp all varas in 1 or even worse fkin Sonya all varas in 1 then the finale of broken.................... Takeda all. Variations In. 1

 

[Sultani]

No.

It was a cool idea to try something new, but too many of the variations ended up being completely worthless.

I suppose the implementation could have made variations cool or whatever, but there were instances of characters having variations based around a certain move or gimmick, while other characters had similar moves (but better) across all variations as a basic tool.

the problem wasn't so much that the idea of variations was bad, it's that no one really thought through what the implications of the variations would be; so there were a lot of situations where the question of "why would you pick variation X of character A when when Character B has that move in all variations?" could not be answered.

MK11 - Get rid of variations, get rid of guests, less new characters, re-introduce dash cancelling, make the lifebars, select screens, and menus aesthetically look like MK instead of injustice, remove interactables, buffered inputs for IA moves, actually have reliable anti airs, and jesus F'ing Christ make teching 1+3.

 

[RoboCop]

On the one hand, it's a good idea: it essentially allows NRS to have 90 characters while only having to create assets for 30. That's pretty brilliant. On the other hand, a lot of variations felt rather useless, incomplete, or just totally outclassed.

Overall, I'd say no, variations just seemed to make everything more complicated while not really adding much to the game.