Guide - A-List Run Cancel Frame Data

[kelevra]

I realise I'm responding to a year old post, but anyway ... Scorpion (Hellfire) seems to have a far easier time getting guaranteed (can't poke out) pressure than Johnny. Overhead is essentially my only solution for low pokers after my SKRC whereas Scorpion can easily repeat the same string over again and trump their attempts to poke out.

According to the frames listed here I should be able to deal with crouching pokes, but it's weird how I don't manage to do it considering my run cancels are quick.

Which cancels do you get poked out of specifically? Sounds weird to me.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

Which cancels do you get poked out of specifically? Sounds weird to me.

Almost all of them. Except for the very reliable f3.

I mean that I get poked out of 1, 1 after the cancel by the way. If I go for the overhead it works sometimes.

Also, I find it borderline impossible to consistently do two srrc in one combo. Too little stamina to do the second one. :/

By the way: About what I said of HF Scorpion, I just realized you can just interrupt his gap before the third hit, so yeah ...

 

[kelevra]

Almost all of them. Except for the very reliable f3.

I mean that I get poked out of 1, 1 after the cancel by the way. If I go for the overhead it works sometimes.

Also, I find it borderline impossible to consistently do two srrc in one combo. Too little stamina to do the second one. :/

By the way: About what I said of HF Scorpion, I just realized you can just interrupt his gap before the third hit, so yeah ...

Then your cancels aren't crispy enough. The only cancel where the opponent can risk to throw a poke is 113.
Practice the skrc timings for all the strings you might want to use because they differ in timing. Sooner or later you'll get it down. And that's when jc starts to show his potential.

 

[llabslb]

Almost all of them. Except for the very reliable f3.

I mean that I get poked out of 1, 1 after the cancel by the way. If I go for the overhead it works sometimes.

Also, I find it borderline impossible to consistently do two srrc in one combo. Too little stamina to do the second one. :/

By the way: About what I said of HF Scorpion, I just realized you can just interrupt his gap before the third hit, so yeah ...

They seem to work just fine, it's your execution.

 

[Red Reaper]

I realise I'm responding to a year old post, but anyway ... Scorpion (Hellfire) seems to have a far easier time getting guaranteed (can't poke out) pressure than Johnny. Overhead is essentially my only solution for low pokers after my SKRC whereas Scorpion can easily repeat the same string over again and trump their attempts to poke out.

According to the frames listed here I should be able to deal with crouching pokes, but it's weird how I don't manage to do it considering my run cancels are quick.

Like I said, at the time he had been nerfed.. He got buffed a bit since then...

In terms of raw kancel pressure though, Johnny has ranged stuff like D4 and F3 run kancels. Also, he has a greater variety of kancels and a faster overhead.

Scorpion has a teleport though, which makes a difference against zoners and in some situations.

I would try to test what you said out but I have the PC version... I think you should be able to beat out pokes with more than just the overhead though.

 

[Red Reaper]

Almost all of them. Except for the very reliable f3.

I mean that I get poked out of 1, 1 after the cancel by the way. If I go for the overhead it works sometimes.

Also, I find it borderline impossible to consistently do two srrc in one combo. Too little stamina to do the second one. :/

By the way: About what I said of HF Scorpion, I just realized you can just interrupt his gap before the third hit, so yeah ...

Yeah, it used to kompletely jail.. Then they removed the kancel... Then they found a middle ground by putting it back but adding that gap.

 

[cheschifodisito]

A compilation of all my notes on A List specific cancels after Johnny's key normal's and strings while also going into applications with both.

Things to keep in mind: SKRC stands for Shadow Kick (BF4) Run Cancel and they are spectacular for gaining meter when used during pressure. All numbers represent values on block unless specified to be on hit. Also, quick frame date note: You must run for two frames, after that window you can run cancel.

F3SKRC+17, this is your main tool to start your pressure game after poking them in neutral, grind this cancel out extensively as it lets you go into 11 pressure and any other mind game you might have up your sleeve and if it hits just confirm into an F24 combo.

F3RC+12, can be used on whiff to avoid a beefy punish. You can buffer F3SKRC on whiff and still get F3RC.

F2SKRC+14, good pressure tool as it allows 11 to jail on block.

F24SKRC+11, great for keeping the pressure going against people who are adept at blocking it and still gives you enough time for a follow up combo on hit.

D4SKRC+5, also useful for quickly initiating your frame trap game by going into either F3SKRC, F24 ,going for a quick tick throw or catching people trying to hit buttons with another D4.

114SKRC+17, great for getting guaranteed pressure after 11 pressure.

113SKRC+1, allows you to stay slightly plus after your low mix up and allows to go into an F24 combo on hit, grind it out.

4SKRC+23, the advantage after run canceling is beefy, even 4SKDC (Dash Cancel) is +5 on block.

333SKRC+15, great string to go for chip, especially after nutpunch. Keep in you have to get them to fear your overhead if you plan on going for this multiple times in a blockstring.

B34SKRC+17, mostly used for guaranteed chip after nut punch to then continue pressure.

12(1)RC+13, use this to mix it up with your 11 pressure.

21SKRC+7, mainly used for tick throws and punishing certain moves F3 cannot with a full combo.

11SKRC+4, not exactly worth it but good to know as you get free D1 check.



Something to keep in mind while playing neutral: Johnny's max poking range is from starting distance with F3, use it to go into his pressure or slowly walk in and poke with D4, you can get into this range by taking two steps forward from max distance and then running towards your opponent to that ideal range and still have enough stamina left over for F3SKRC.

I'll keep updating the thread with more info as time goes on but for now enjoy having some numbers!

mm...i don't know...don't seem to be jailing standing 1 after f2,4 skrc....don't think its +11

 

[llabslb]

mm...i don't know...don't seem to be jailing standing 1 after f2,4 skrc....don't think its +11

It's not +11. It's at least +12 because you can jail a F3. Keep practicing.

 

[cheschifodisito]

It's not +11. It's at least +12 because you can jail a F3. Keep practicing.

dude XD my pressure is pretty good...i get everything to jail exept for some times where i'm off 1 or 2 frames...f24skrc is at least +12 u say? dude i should jail 8 frames standing 1 no problem....there must be something wrong with this frame data..any1 can confirm this?

 

[llabslb]

dude XD my pressure is pretty good...i get everything to jail exept for some times where i'm off 1 or 2 frames...f24skrc is at least +12 u say? dude i should jail 8 frames standing 1 no problem....there must be something wrong with this frame data..any1 can confirm this?

Ahhhhh, I hate having to do this. I'll get someone to record F24 SKRC jailing on my behalf. Everytime someone questions frame data they need video evidence to confirm the advantage of a cancel. Like why can't you take our word? There's like 11 pages worth of discussion amongst pretty knowledgeable players. It's a massive inconvenience.

@Zionix could you record a video lol

 

[Nedyrc]

dude XD my pressure is pretty good...i get everything to jail exept for some times where i'm off 1 or 2 frames...f24skrc is at least +12 u say? dude i should jail 8 frames standing 1 no problem....there must be something wrong with this frame data..any1 can confirm this?

I cant jail 11 after f24 either. But i remember jailing it once in training mode so i can say it jails but you need to be sanic fast

 

[Asodimazze]

dude XD my pressure is pretty good...i get everything to jail exept for some times where i'm off 1 or 2 frames...f24skrc is at least +12 u say? dude i should jail 8 frames standing 1 no problem....there must be something wrong with this frame data..any1 can confirm this?

Just go back to practice, it's not that easy. Here you go:

 

[Zionix]

The F24 cancel is super weird, but it is plus 12 for sure. Start with jailing it into 114 then F3; but in all honestly in a tournament match I wouldn't recommend going for f3 as it is a tight cancel.

I find 12(1) F3 far easier to jail, even though on paper its identical frame data.

I've seen a lot of top cage players cancelling 333 and doing it super late and not even jailing standing 1, this string also jails into overhead, not that anybody does it.

 

[Asodimazze]

The F24 cancel is super weird, but it is plus 12 for sure. Start with jailing it into 114 then F3; but in all honestly in a tournament match I wouldn't recommend going for f3 as it is a tight cancel.

I find 12(1) F3 far easier to jail, even though on paper its identical frame data.

I've seen a lot of top cage players cancelling 333 and doing it super late and not even jailing standing 1, this string also jails into overhead, not that anybody does it.

From what I know 333 doesn't jail into f2. It usually takes 16-17 frames for f2 to connect and 333SKRC is just +15 on block

 

[Zionix]

its 100% does jail

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

From what I know 333 doesn't jail into f2. It usually takes 16-17 frames for f2 to connect and 333SKRC is just +15 on block

I can confirm 333 jails f2 on block

 

[cheschifodisito]

Just go back to practice, it's not that easy. Here you go:

dude...xD would u pull that off consistently in a tournament? i don't think so lol

 

[Darkling]

dude...xD would u pull that off consistently in a tournament? i don't think so lol

it doesn't matter he can do it consistently or not. The perfect f24 cancel still jails to 114, it's a fact

 

[llabslb]

dude...xD would u pull that off consistently in a tournament? i don't think so lol

Point of the video was to prove the block advantage of the cancel. F24 SKRC is at least +12. Jailing this cancel isn't exactly easy but it certainly is viable (jailed or not).

 

[Zionix]

dude...xD would u pull that off consistently in a tournament? i don't think so lol

You don't need to jail it.

Don't need to jail anything unless its chip-out for the round.

+12 is insane from an overhead string. even if you can only ever manage to be +6, its still your turn. Its still a great bait and punish, or a throw.

 

[cheschifodisito]

Point of the video was to prove the block advantage of the cancel. F24 SKRC is at least +12. Jailing this cancel isn't exactly easy but it certainly is viable (jailed or not).

of course it is viable, i was just saying it's pretty hard to make it

You don't need to jail it.

Don't need to jail anything unless its chip-out for the round.

+12 is insane from an overhead string. even if you can only ever manage to be +6, its still your turn. Its still a great bait and punish, or a throw.

what if i expect an armor move? should i block and punish and risk to give away my momentum or stick to easy jailing strings (this way i'll still be having the same problem next time i touch my opponent)

 

[llabslb]

of course it is viable, i was just saying it's pretty hard to make it

what if i expect an armor move? should i block and punish and risk to give away my momentum or stick to easy jailing strings (this way i'll still be having the same problem next time i touch my opponent)

This is possibly the most stubborn and ungrateful thing I've read on this site. Why not bait out a button? Isn't that common sense? Its like a fundamental part of a fighting game. You can't just expect to jail your opponent to death. Also another thing, if you want an easier jail, why not do F2 SKRC? That's way more plus (at least +16) and has more ability to combo off. I'm in genuine shock. No wonder the Johnny forums are seen as down players, because of people like you who are unhappy of being +12. Poor thing, I'm sorry your execution isn't good enough to jail this cancel properly. Must be hard to bait out a button, like I don't know....every fighting character ever. I feel for you.

 

[cheschifodisito]

This is possibly the most stubborn and ungrateful thing I've read on this site. Why not bait out a button? Isn't that common sense? Its like a fundamental part of a fighting game. You can't just expect to jail your opponent to death. Also another thing, if you want an easier jail, why not do F2 SKRC? That's way more plus (at least +16) and has more ability to combo off. I'm in genuine shock. No wonder the Johnny forums are seen as down players, because of people like you who are unhappy of being +12. Poor thing, I'm sorry your execution isn't good enough to jail this cancel properly. Must be hard to bait out a button, like I don't know....every fighting character ever. I feel for you.

its frustrating though having to eat that armor cause my cancel wasnt perfect..we're all human after all

 

[Ozzy_K]

In the latest patch notes it is written:

• Johnny Cage (A-List) - added 5 frames before a dash cancel is active if a move is charged during the opponents block stun

Does this affect cancel frame data and is info in the post still correct?

 

[jaylee777]

In the latest patch notes it is written:

• Johnny Cage (A-List) - added 5 frames before a dash cancel is active if a move is charged during the opponents block stun

Does this affect cancel frame data and is info in the post still correct?

Yes it does. Pretty much what that means is you just reduce the advantage of every cancel by 5 frames. (Ex: F3skrc is now +12 instead of +17)