Question Reset loop and frame trap.

[BenGmanUk]

No, you should end corner combos in 222 instead of slide. Gives you a free clone.

Something like this...

JIP B121, 212 clone. Then if you land a combo, end in 222 clone.

So you're ending with b121 then.

Obviously if 212/214 hits as the follow up you can't use b121 again since they're in the air.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Fair, but after you b121 me, I'm armouring out of any follow up

You do that. Or I could just block and blow you up.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

So you're ending with b121 then.

Obviously if 212/214 hits as the follow up you can't use b121 again since they're in the air.

yeah, lol. That was more addressed to durango, but I was too lazy to go back a page... so ... you got quoted instead.

 

[Temjiin]

You do that. Or I could just block and blow you up.

Alright FT10 tonight, on stream. Shit just got real!

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

It's worth noting that the reset should be used sparingly on any character with armour.

As a sub player, I'd personally take the bnb myself, guaranteed damage. But I'm not a Sub player

You can't armor out of the follow up of b1,2,1. Online you probably can get away with it, but offline you'll eat another combo, or the throw. The ONLY thing you can do is duck to avoid the throw, or block.

 

[Temjiin]

You can't armor out of the follow up of b1,2,1. Online you probably can get away with it, but offline you'll eat another combo, or the throw. The ONLY thing you can do is duck to avoid the throw, or block.

I've got more experience with this MU offline than most other MUs.... I can armour out of any follow up. Frame advantage is irrelevant, if I have time to block a followup, I can get an EX slide out. Someone like Jax would have no problem being hit with b1 2 1.

 

[BenGmanUk]

I've got more experience with this MU offline than most others.... I can armour out of any follow up. Frame advantage is irrelevant, if I have time to block a followup, I can get an EX slide out. Someone like Jax would have no problem being hit with b1 2 1.

I wondered this. f0xy has ex nut punched me out of a b121 follow up but I was never sure whether it was just my timing.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I wondered this. f0xy has ex nut punched me out of a b121 follow up but I was never sure whether it was just my timing.

exNut punch has invincibility frames... not armor

I want to be proven wrong here... if anyone can tape this phenomenon i'd love to see it. Anytime i've thrown someone after b1,2,1 and timed it properly... I "see" the exflash and they still eat my sword.
If i'm wrong i'm wrong, but i've only been armored out when I delayed my 2,2 looking for a jump away.

edit: Somberness is there anyway to know what frame SZ can attack after a b1,2,1 hits with a standing 2 or a throw? Is SZ still at advantage or is he at 0 when he can attack?

 

[BenGmanUk]

exNut punch has invincibility frames... not armor

Yes I know so technically the follow up 2 simply whiffs rather than gets absorbed. I'm still unsure if this is guaranteed though but would be happy to test with someone.

 

[Temjiin]

Yes I know so technically the follow up 2 simply whiffs rather than gets absorbed. I'm still unsure if this is guaranteed though but would be happy to test with someone.

This might be why I get the slide, the 2 might whiff although I'm sure it hits.

 

[Somberness]

exNut punch has invincibility frames... not armor

I want to be proven wrong here... if anyone can tape this phenomenon i'd love to see it. Anytime i've thrown someone after b1,2,1 and timed it properly... I "see" the exflash and they still eat my sword.
If i'm wrong i'm wrong, but i've only been armored out when I delayed my 2,2 looking for a jump away.

edit: Somberness is there anyway to know what frame SZ can attack after a b1,2,1 hits with a standing 2 or a throw? Is SZ still at advantage or is he at 0 when he can attack?

You can connect with standing 2 before they recover. I don't think you can get a guaranteed throw.

I knew a throw wasn't guaranteed... thanks for the clarification

So you can't armor through the standing 2 then?

STB CharlieMurphy, You can't attack while in recovery.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

You can connect with standing 2 before they recover. I don't think you can get a guaranteed throw.

I knew a throw wasn't guaranteed... thanks for the clarification

So you can't armor through the standing 2 then?

Temjiin.... look at the post above.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I go at this visually, I look for them still in the staggered state trying to get up to either throw or start pressure. Anything after that, and they usually jump/armor/poke out. Still not perfect at this though, so sometimes I default to D4 follow up to check them although this may be a bad habit and I just need more lab time setting the AI to jump, etc after I do it

Edit: Jesus that's a long sentence, need coffee before attempting punctuation on forums....

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

You can connect with standing 2 before they recover. I don't think you can get a guaranteed throw.

STB CharlieMurphy, You can't attack while in recovery.

My posts are always trivial I know. but you always prove me right!! <3

 

[ChaosTheory]

b1,2,1 trumps the other BnB's in every way aside from wall-carry. But the wall-carry difference isn't drastic and you get a free Clone setup and meter build in exchange.

That's assuming you're treating b1,2,1 the right way. If you're following up b1,2,1 with d4 or f4 or shit like that, you're fucking up.

 

[Qwark28]

Not worth it. You get 32% off the BnB + wall carry + untechable knockdown. You get 29% I believe of the B121 + chip + meter or possible F4 reset for another 29%-32% or a throw to make the overall damage 41%.

You give up 3 % damage for more setups/mixups/meter ... IMO it's better. *shrug*

212 chip is 4% and 26% of a bar,you actually do more damage.

i think that people are forgetting a good mixup,b1 2 or b1 xx d4,that shit is very useful.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

212 chip is 4% and 26% of a bar,you actually do more damage.

i think that people are forgetting a good mixup,b1 2 or b1 xx d4,that shit is very useful.

thats not a mixup
b1 is negative on block i believe.
99% of the cast can simply poke after b1,2 and 2,1.
He has no "mixups". He simply has block strings, that can be staggered at times.

 

[Qwark28]

thats not a mixup
b1 is negative on block i believe.
99% of the cast can simply poke after b1,2 and 2,1.
He has no "mixups". He simply has block strings, that can be staggered at times.

-2 on block,+20 cancel advantage on block,d4 becomes 10f

Who cares if someone pokes after b12,if the you cancel the 2 in b1 to a d4,it's already the regular highest damage BNB off of a JIP,might as well use it at its best potential

plus the d4 comes out faster than 2 in b1,it is a mixup because they either have to guess low or high.

Opponent blocks low=loss of 3% of a bar from a clone and 1-2% chip damage
Opponent blocks high=regular blockstring

Opponent blocks High,you've d4'd=Free 212
Opponent blocks low,you've continued the string,=29-34% damage,full combo,ender of your choice

there's absolutely no reason why this shouldn't be used every once in a while,it catches people off guard and gives free pressure,if you do land a jip,the best you'd do with b12 clone a slight bit more than what you'd do if your d4 was blocked,plus closer to opponent and on 0 frames.

If you still aren't convinced,add it in your game for the next 10 games,i guarantee you it'l be of much use when used correctly (sparingly to catch people off guard or as a mixup)

OF COURSE i'm not saying you can't blow it up,some characters specials can blow this up but you shouldn't be using the string against them anyways.

just saying,if someone doesn't wanna risk a poke for pressure that's gonna end in just one more hit,not to mention the damage if you're not fast enough,this could work.

i believe salvificblood has been using it for a long ass time,how has it served you?

 

[salvificblood]

-2 on block,+20 cancel advantage on block,d4 becomes 10f

Who cares if someone pokes after b12,if the you cancel the 2 in b1 to a d4,it's already the regular highest damage BNB off of a JIP,might as well use it at its best potential

plus the d4 comes out faster than 2 in b1,it is a mixup because they either have to guess low or high.

Opponent blocks low=loss of 3% of a bar from a clone and 1-2% chip damage
Opponent blocks high=regular blockstring

Opponent blocks High,you've d4'd=Free 212
Opponent blocks low,you've continued the string,=29-34% damage,full combo,ender of your choice

there's absolutely no reason why this shouldn't be used every once in a while,it catches people off guard and gives free pressure,if you do land a jip,the best you'd do with b12 clone a slight bit more than what you'd do if your d4 was blocked,plus closer to opponent and on 0 frames.

If you still aren't convinced,add it in your game for the next 10 games,i guarantee you it'l be of much use when used correctly (sparingly to catch people off guard or as a mixup)

OF COURSE i'm not saying you can't blow it up,some characters specials can blow this up but you shouldn't be using the string against them anyways.

just saying,if someone doesn't wanna risk a poke for pressure that's gonna end in just one more hit,not to mention the damage if you're not fast enough,this could work.

i believe salvificblood has been using it for a long ass time,how has it served you?

Very sparingly, b1, d4 or b1 slide will catch your opponent as they naturally transition from low to neutral guard for the 2nd partof the string, which is an overhead. The problem with it is you can't really use it outside of obvious setups (like after b121). Even then, it's sketchy because so many people low block and if your timing is slightly off, your b1 will whiff and the slide won't come out, and you sure as hell won't be able to d4 afterwards as you will be getting whiff punished; b1 has a really obvious animation.

I used to use b1, d4 and b1 slide but I don't really play MK anymore. I am not very well placed to discuss tactics or strategy when it comes to Sub these days. Sorry. (I still follow the competitive scene, of course, just don't enjoy playing anymore).

 

[Dark_Rob]

I am not very well placed to discuss tactics or strategy when it comes to Sub these days. Sorry. (I still follow the competitive scene, of course, just don't enjoy playing anymore).

Lol. Not you to Salvific!? For me, I never really adapted after NRS so harshly watered down the character with so many nerfs. He went from being one of the best in the game early on and just got nerfed so badly by the time of Seasons Beatings 2011 I didnt even recognize the character anymore. It played a large part in driving me away from the game.

 

[salvificblood]

Lol. Not you to Salvific!? For me, I never really adapted after NRS so harshly watered down the character with so many nerfs. He went from being one of the best in the game early on and just got nerfed so badly by the time of Seasons Beatings 2011 I didnt even recognize the character anymore. It played a large part in driving me away from the game.

To be honest, Sub is the only reason I got into MK9, and it's so hard to enjoy playing the character in this version of the game. That, plus the fact so many of the people I play Call of Duty with have wanted to get onto the paid MLG ladders for such a long time, and with Black Ops 2 on the horizon, I decided to go ahead and create the team. That has taken up all my free gaming time in recent weeks, so I've just not been dedicated to MK.

I am like you 100% when it comes to Sub-Zero. I decided to not complain about the character or drive decent people crazy by bitching my ass off and gradually stopped playing lol. I still enjoy watching MK9 and this community is a really good one, I just can't torture myself anymore!

 

[Durango]

B121 is problematic since 21 or 22 can be jumped over or countered. However, you could just do a d4 clone or even slide them after the combo if you're not already in the corner.

Keeping someone corner is a huge issue for me, though. They armor through the clone, jump over it and punish, or wait.

If they armor, they've likely used a safe attack to go with it.
If they jump over, they either cross me up or go right past the clone to the point I can't block them back into it.
If they wait, they stand-block and jump punch randomly. This makes timing a dash-in 22 freeze very difficult.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

B121 is problematic since 21 or 22 can be jumped over or countered. However, you could just do a d4 clone or even slide them after the combo if you're not already in the corner.

Keeping someone corner is a huge issue for me, though. They armor through the clone, jump over it and punish, or wait.

If they armor, they've likely used a safe attack to go with it.
If they jump over, they either cross me up or go right past the clone to the point I can't block them back into it.
If they wait, they stand-block and jump punch randomly. This makes timing a dash-in 22 freeze very difficult.

you have bad timing ... they can't do anything but block the follow up 2 after b1,2,1. Frame Data proves it.