reptile vs Sonya

[Muffinmuggers]

This has to be the Gayest match up ever. Is Sonya god tier or something? i've been fighting a couple Sonyas. Every bit one of Sonyas strings, I literally cannot dash, wake up, or do anything inbetween. I simply cannot stop her combos with out a breaker.. and I keep keep her out of rushing down.. and I play reptile as a full rush down, One mistake, and im eating shit. that i simply cannot get out of. Any tips? SImply my worst match up due to lack of experince in playing Sonya. Thanks.

 

[Briggs8417]

Its hard to keep her out its hard to escape its hard to get in, but this is still a 5-5, i find most sonyas usually all start by jumpimg so i like to ex acid spit, 12% off the bat and you get another bar at the start, if you try to zone always charge any ex fbs as much as possible if ahe arch kicks and gets hit, you combo, and if not you can move in, but if she trhows out a projectile while charging let go immediately or youve wasted a bar. Try not to let her get her projectiles out though because when she starts she is hard to stop, but you can slide under them. When doing pressure strings always be be sure to end with acid hand or ex elbow dash. (Use slides sparingly) Just be patient and wait for your oppurtunities, because there are plenty.

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[Salad Petresky]

I honestly think this is one of reptile's bad match up.
Lets go over her advantages. Her projectile dodges under your spit and she could trade with force ball with ring so zoning isnt an option. She can jump over forceball with that flying kick.Ex fb can be counter ex cartwheel into a safe launcher or she could even do her flying kick. Her hit box is fucking ridiculous and shes a tank at close range. And trading jip you will lose most of the time because dive kick has an advantage.

Ill edit this when i get home, brb

 

[Briggs8417]

Post removed made a mistake lol.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Its hard to keep her out its hard to escape its hard to get in, but this is still a 5-5, i find most sonyas usually all start by jumpimg so i like to ex acid spit, 12% off the bat and you get another bar at the start, if you try to zone always charge any ex fbs as much as possible if ahe arch kicks and gets hit, you combo, and if not you can move in. Try not to let her get her projectiles out though because when she starts she is hard to stop, but you can slide under them. When doing pressure strings always be be sure to end with acid hand or ex elbow dash. (Use slides sparingly) Just be patient and wait for your oppurtunities, because there are plenty.

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This isnt a 5-5.

Sonya outzones reptile from fullscreen
She has better mixups up close
Longer D4 that leads to frametraps right back into a footsie/mixup situation
More damage
Can divekick reptile out of the dash and has a 7 frame jab thats easy to punish a blocked dash with

Probly like a 7-3 in theory. But 6-4 in actual play

 

[Briggs8417]

This isnt a 5-5.

Sonya outzones reptile from fullscreen
She has better mixups up close
Longer D4 that leads to frametraps right back into a footsie/mixup situation
More damage
Can divekick reptile out of the dash and has a 7 frame jab thats easy to punish a blocked dash with

Probly like a 7-3 in theory. But 6-4 in actual play

I agree with all of this but if reptile gets an fb on screen the ball as in his court. (As it is with most of his matchups) when he gets in he has setups that are only escapable by jumping, i feel like if he builds the momentum hes hard for her to stop. (However the trick with this matchup is gaining momentum)

Edit: so i will agree with 4-6 sonya favor. However the matchup is still very winnable imo.

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[Salad Petresky]

I agree with all of this but if reptile gets an fb on screen the ball as in his court. (As it is with most of his matchups) when he gets in he has setups that are only escapable by jumping, i feel like if he builds the momentum hes hard for her to stop. (However the trick with this matchup is gaining momentum)

Edit: so i will agree with 4-6 sonya favor. However the matchup is still very winnable imo.

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Gaining momentum from forceball? Good luck getting that forceball on the field when she is on your ass. Fb is simply too slow on start up/recovery rate and can be punish by dive kick or ring. And dont forget about ex cartwheel that has armor and safe on block. So she just needs to waste 1 bar in order rid of that forceball and if you are on the offensive side she would get a 30% combo, and that jump over kick can just jump over reptile and the forceball to the other side. Dont get me wrong, knocking her down and use fb is still a good idea. But doing it while she is standing is almost impossible

With this kind of bad match up you have to take some risk, like guessing/reading when she is gonna end her pressure and dash. The thing is you kinda have to make her respect the dash so she can not get her offense and putting her on the defensive side. And example is the string 21 military stand, you can dash at her after 21. When she is respecting the dash she would either 21 block to bait out dash or 21 cartwheel but this would end her pressure. If you are in her pressure its not a bad idea to use ex slide either.

 

[Briggs8417]

Gaining momentum from forceball? Good luck getting that forceball on the field when she is on your ass. Fb is simply too slow on start up/recovery rate and can be punish by dive kick or ring. And dont forget about ex cartwheel that has armor and safe on block. So she just needs to waste 1 bar in order rid of that forceball and if you are on the offensive side she would get a 30% combo, and that jump over kick can just jump over reptile and the forceball to the other side. Dont get me wrong, knocking her down and use fb is still a good idea. But doing it while she is standing is almost impossible

With this kind of bad match up you have to take some risk, like guessing/reading when she is gonna end her pressure and dash. The thing is you kinda have to make her respect the dash so she can not get her offense and putting her on the defensive side. And example is the string 21 military stand, you can dash at her after 21. When she is respecting the dash she would either 21 block to bait out dash or 21 cartwheel but this would end her pressure. If you are in her pressure its not a bad idea to use ex slide either.

Of course you arent going to do an fb if shes in yer grill??? Thats stupid and absolutley not what im suggesting.

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[Salad Petresky]

Of course you arent going to do an fb if shes in yer grill??? Thats stupid and absolutley not what im suggesting.

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Its very hard to get a fb out unless you knock her down, full screen can not beat ring. Mid screen it can be punished by Arc Kick, she might even have time to dash up and do ex cartwheel and do 30%. You can not trade spit either, it would go over her head when she is in ring mode. Fb when she is up anywhere is just too slow.

 

[Briggs8417]

Its very hard to get a fb out unless you knock her down, full screen can not beat ring. Mid screen it can be punished by Arc Kick, she might even have time to dash up and do ex cartwheel and do 30%. You can not trade spit either, it would go over her head when she is in ring mode. Fb when she is up anywhere is just too slow

off a normal fb yes but ex fb can save yer ass in this matchup, it comes out faster as well as on recovery, it can still get beat but if you time it right you will get it out but however still can get hit by the fireball, but an ex fb is out and you get yer chance to move in.

 

[Salad Petresky]

off a normal fb yes but ex fb can save yer ass in this matchup, it comes out faster as well as on recovery, it can still get beat but if you time it right you will get it out but however still can get hit by the fireball, but an ex fb is out and you get yer chance to move in.

Ok lets say you move in, ofcourse heres what is ussually going to happen. Ex fb, you have to block the ring, you dash in do 321 right? During that time the forceball is around reptile's body. So if you are rushing in like that, she will likely to do ex cartwheel which kills your fb and get a 30% if you start a combo. If you go in and block, then you would still lose the fb and the cart wheel is safe on block with 0 frame i believe. If you do ex fb, block, dash jump, you will doing a jump in punch/kick.she can also do ex cart to get out or air jump kick grab which will beat your jip. This would most likely get her pass the fb. And when the situation starts over, she has a better close range offensive than you.

 

[Briggs8417]

Ok lets say you move in, ofcourse heres what is ussually going to happen. Ex fb, you have to block the ring, you dash in do 321 right? During that time the forceball is around reptile's body. So if you are rushing in like that, she will likely to do ex cartwheel which kills your fb and get a 30% if you start a combo. If you go in and block, then you would still lose the fb and the cart wheel is safe on block with 0 frame i believe. If you do ex fb dash jump, she can also do ex cart or air jump kick grab. This would most likely get her pass the fb. And when the situation starts over, she has a better close range offensive than you.

321 ex elbow dash takes care of the armor on cartwheel because it is four hits in two moves, and you get a knockdown to oki with next?

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[Salad Petresky]

321 ex elbow dash takes care of the armor on cartwheel because it is four hits in two moves, and you get a knockdown to oki with next?

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No she would do ex cartwheel when you get in and do 321. So she would do it BEFORE the 3 comes out. Thats enough armor to take care of the ex fb and the 3

 

[Briggs8417]

No she would do ex cartwheel when you get in and do 321. So she would do it BEFORE the 3 comes out. Thats enough armor to take care of the ex fb and the 3

Edit: not what you said but that fine since cartwheel puts her neutral and you block it you can elbow dash and sonya cant stop it.
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[Salad Petresky]

Edit: not what you said but that fine since cartwheel puts her neutral and you block it you can elbow dash and sonya cant stop it.
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Just tested with my brother, on start up frame sonya can kill ex fb and and beat out before 3 comes out. and this is mid screen so you can dash and do 321. In full screen you will have to do dash jump in which still get killed by ex cartwheel. Yeah do elbow dash, you lose frame adv -15 and she could punish that by a full combo on block. Cartwheel is 0 on frame on block. Even if she cant punish on time, she still can pressure and gain shit load of meter

 

[Briggs8417]

Just tested with my brother, on start up frame sonya can kill ex fb and soniya can do ex cartwheel on reaction before 3 comes out

Ok, i will look into it.

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[Briggs8417]

Ok, i will look into it.

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Edit: even if it does though on block she cant do anything but block elbow dash.

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[Salad Petresky]

Edit: even if it does though on block she cant do anything but block elbow dash.

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I said already, if she blocks elbow dash. She gains 15 frames which is enough to punish a full combo. If she cant punish it, she still can gain shit load of meter and pressure. Remember when testing heres what you have to do, ex fb, block ring, dash in, ex cartwheel, 321

 

[Playpal]

Cartwheel is not 0 check the frame data.

 

[Salad Petresky]

Cartwheel is not 0 check the frame data.

Fine, ex cartwheel isnt 0. Its like -2/3 or something. 100% safe on block still. Still a bad match up for reptile nonetheless, she has a lot of answers for reptile's skill set while reptile doesnt have the offensive at close range as sonya, i mean she even has a reset.

 

[Briggs8417]

Fine, ex cartwheel isnt 0. Its like -2 or something. 100% safe on block still. Still a bad match up for reptile nonetheless, she has a lot of answers for reptile's skill set while reptile doesnt have the offensive at close range as sonya, i mean she even has a reset.

I agree it isnt good, but that doesnt mean you dont have options i found out something interesting for ex cartwheel just tested it and im going to try and post videos for it. Also reptile has offensive options, but the are harf to get into in his bad matchups that i cant deny.

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[A F0xy Grampa]

I agree with all of this but if reptile gets an fb on screen the ball as in his court. (As it is with most of his matchups) when he gets in he has setups that are only escapable by jumping, i feel like if he builds the momentum hes hard for her to stop. (However the trick with this matchup is gaining momentum)

Edit: so i will agree with 4-6 sonya favor. However the matchup is still very winnable imo.

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Reptile cant get forceballs on the screen because Sonya can shoot twice before he can start his first forceball, escape by jumping isnt anything a Sonya player fears considering she has a divekick an air throw and her air-to-airs end in a reset mixup situation, while reptile has no air control what so ever.

A reptile player trying to put forceballs on the screen is like a Cyrax trying to catch a fireball spamming Kabal in a net.

Even if the reptile player gets the forceball on the screen she can just Ex Cartwheel it if you dash in, on block its safe, leading to her footsie game which is too strong for reptile, and on hit its 30% ish gone.

Sonya can swing the momentum right back easier than he can start it, on top of that she's probably got the biggest comeback factor in the game, so its hard for any Reptile to keep on top of her, especially since you're gonna have to poke at some point because her 7 frame jab will beat all your starters and her divekick kills your pokes.

Her D4 owns him within dash distance too.

Something I just thought of and would like to check is if Sonyas F4 makes it so she cant be dashed by Reptile? She can do it to hop over KLs low hat and counts her as airbourne so would dashes work? If thats the case then Sonya could probably spend alot of time throwing out overheads which are 0 on block and create nasty mindgames, and on hit give a safe jump.

The more I go into depth the more screwed it looks like Reptile is against her.

There is nowhere on the screen that Reptile dominates her in this matchup.

She wins fullscreen.
She wins midscreen.
She dominates up close.

 

[Briggs8417]

I couldnt get the vid but i will try again tomorrow , but i will go ahead and explain. Ok so this whole deal is a matter of when how you come in on sonya and how sonya comes at you. If you throw out the fb and elbow dash in start with three, this is where timing and spacing come into play. I have seen three scenarios sobfar but there could be more, the first being if sonya dashes in and cartwheels she will bust you up only taking eight percent damage and getting that full combo. However if she doesnt dash in things get tricky. If dash in and just hit and get even a little startup 3 it will hit the armor right at the beginning of a move and rep will take a hit, but the fb comes and pops her up and you get a full combo of up to 33% (you might be able to get a njp in i disnt try) BUT THIS HAS TO BE TIMED WHERE 3 AND EX FB HIT BACK TO BACK SILMULTANEOUSLY. If they do not and they hit at the same time it counts as one hit towards her armor and sonya will once again get the combo. Im not say that this matcup is easy i havent been. I realize that its hard for reptile to do anything he like to her, but come on you guys are making this sound like the mileena matchup. I dont disagree with anything you guys are saying about the matchup I just dont believe its as bad as you make it sound, but hey who am i? Lol the sonyas I've played have prolly all been not so great.
[MENTION=3775]A F0xy Grampa[/MENTION] [MENTION=8683]Sanatic[/MENTION]
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[Salad Petresky]

8417, you didnt test the option of ex forceball, block ring (she can do it on reaction), dash in, ex kartwheel, 3. It will beat reptile 100% of the time. At far range, you will have to go through 2/3 rings before the ex forceball come to her so if you dash you are forced to eat a ring. If you jump you will never get there before the fb hits her.

The same problem lies as the same as mileena, the fucked up hit box character and shut down forceball/spit. Which both mileena and sonya can do. That would shut down half of reptile's skill set, the worst part is sonya doesnt need to take any big risks in this match at all.

 

[Briggs8417]

8417, you didnt test the option of ex forceball, block ring (she can do it on reaction), dash in, ex kartwheel, 3. It will beat reptile 100% of the time. At far range, you will have to go through 2/3 rings before the ex forceball come to her so if you dash you are forced to eat a ring. If you jump you will never get there before the fb hits her.

The same problem lies as the same as mileena, the fucked up hit box character and shut down forceball/spit. Which both mileena and sonya can do. That would shut down HALF of reptile's skill set

Yer right. Ok done moving on.

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