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Reptile vs. CSZ

AK Toxic

AK Toxic

Graphic Designer
I've been playing POTH's CSZ and he's been giving me trouble ever since I started playing him. I need some advice from other Rep's, maybe Teef, THTB, etc.. Anyone willing to help. The advice I've gotten against csz is to charge an EX ball to see if you can bait his dive kick. I try to put pressure on but it's hard with the way he plays.
 
Briggs8417

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
RTO Toxic said:
I've been playing POTH's CSZ and he's been giving me trouble ever since I started playing him. I need some advice from other Rep's, maybe Teef, THTB, etc.. Anyone willing to help. The advice I've gotten against csz is to charge an EX ball to see if you can bait his dive kick. I try to put pressure on but it's hard with the way he plays.
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Hey man, I've played POTH's CSZ and it is rough I feel ya dude, he's a very solid player. Yes, definitely charge ex fb's, that is a big one. Most CSZ players love to use the 2 1 1+2 string, then come in to pressure more which reptile can punish with elbow dash, however POTH is wise to this and uses parry after the string once he sees that your punishing it, that's when you start low poking him after it. Blocking any dive kick allows you to pressure. 321 acid hand is the best option unless you land a hit, then go into the NJP combo. (You can also do the 122 acid hand string, and go into 122 combo on hit) That's just some general stuff.
 
AK Toxic

AK Toxic

Graphic Designer
Reptile_8417 said:
Hey man, I've played POTH's CSZ and it is rough I feel ya dude, he's a very solid player. Yes, definitely charge ex fb's, that is a big one. Most CSZ players love to use the 2 1 1+2 string, then come in to pressure more which reptile can punish with elbow dash, however POTH is wise to this and uses parry after the string once he sees that your punishing it, that's when you start low poking him after it. Blocking any dive kick allows you to pressure. 321 acid hand is the best option unless you land a hit, then go into the NJP combo. (You can also do the 122 acid hand string, and go into 122 combo on hit) That's just some general stuff.
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Thanks for the help man, and yea that's what I have a lot of trouble with. Not much CSZ match up experience + POTH playstyle = saltyness. I'll start doing the 321AH pressure more, but I rarely use 122 that much anymore P: Also d4 with Rep is pretty good, the d4 ah is still 50/50 with me, I don't get it 100% of the time
 
Briggs8417

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
RTO Toxic said:
Thanks for the help man, and yea that's what I have a lot of trouble with. Not much CSZ match up experience + POTH playstyle = saltyness. I'll start doing the 321AH pressure more, but I rarely use 122 that much anymore P: Also d4 with Rep is pretty good, the d4 ah is still 50/50 with me, I don't get it 100% of the time
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Yeah, np dude, anymore questions and you can hit me up.
 
AK Toxic

AK Toxic

Graphic Designer
I just need to practice the match up a lot. If I could get in a lot of sets in with Pig it'd help.
 
Briggs8417

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
RTO Toxic said:
I just need to practice the match up a lot. If I could get in a lot of sets in with Pig it'd help.
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Yeah dude, this matchup is tough, you have to play it a lot safer than you do a lot of others with reptile, or you'll just be punished all day.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I'm pretty sure dash can interrupt the 2,1, 1+2 between the 1 and 1+2 so he cant finish the string. This should make him think about finishing it next time but his parry still is an option. Also you can't be scared to put normal force balls on the screen to keep him honest so you can actually set up ex balls. D+4 hand is also a great friend to you in this match because parry wont beat it.

This isn't a detailed match up description but these tools work well in the match up.


Edit, I'm not 100% on the dash between 1 and 1+2. I know scorpions ex spear wins that out because it has armor so I might be wrong. If that's the case ex slide can also be an option in that situation.
 
xxteefxx

xxteefxx

Kenshi Moderator
hey man :)
Ohh i know PIGGY WELL!! haha, brant is the man...one of my most favorite MK9 players :)

first off, Csz VS rep is CSZ favor. Just an FYI. Though! it can go to be VERY 5 - 5 due to those reasons

-Reptile EX slide is anti CSZ Bomb traps
-EX FB fully charge Stops CSZ from Air kick Diving , period! so use it correctly
-On knock down, FFB can pressure CSZ wake up game. in that case, this is a good option for reptile to pressure while in close or far away
-Learn to bait wake up moves and specials ! if ur not yet acquainted with that, then start gettin use to it! Slide is punishable, Parry is Punishable with any low atack move, and teleport is punishable if CSZ tried to do anything after (even jump) " to null Teleport, use 3,2,1 to pressure opponent...THOUGH! watch the parry if it's a ground to ground teleport, so cr+4 can be good"
-cr+4 on csz is really usefull! though , not when CSZ is free in air! Dive kick auto correct, so watch it. cr+4 is also good to null CSZ cross ups
-Learn CSZ string cause they are nasty! also, his 2,1 string is so fast and does annoying block string stun. so be aware of his High low mix ups, and his pressure string
- Reptile cannot go Frame traping happy with 3,2 or 1's or 3's frame trap or even invis block string traps WITHOUT beeing aware first of the Parry incoming. so, let SCZ adjust to you first!! before u adjust to him! by means, u bait him and not the other way around.
-Bloced dive kick is punishable by f+2~ combos or a simple dash. Recommended ofcourse f+2~ string combos/juggles

-Final thing, Agrresive Reptile is the correct Way in this matchup. My reptile is always aggressive that's why i am WAY different than a lot of other reps. THOUGH! for this match, baiting Slide, Teleport and dive kicks is a MUST!
so , good luck man :)

i would give this match 5 .5 - 4.5 Sub favor or can go 5 - 5 (but yah, i know Sub fans will start shouting now lol...though i am srry, i would say i feel it's 5 - 5 for sure)
PS: Scoot Magge. CSZ can bait Block strings with 2,1! so reptile dahsing recklessly can be VERY painful! not only that, 2,1 is a VERY good and safe baiter/ frame traper.

"Also you can't be scared to put normal force balls on the screen to keep him honest so you can actually set up ex balls"
not entirley correct. FB on screen a lot is Very escapable by his Slide, High IADive kick and teleport....so it's not about FB games at all! it's all about baiting subzero's dive kick to punish with EX FB fully charge (not when it moves, but EX FB use as AA).
so FB game is not a reliable option for rep. this match, reptile will be forced to be all over the place with a lot of strategies

hope i was helpful in any possible way
 
Altaire

Altaire

Noob
xxteefxx said:
hey man :)
Ohh i know PIGGY WELL!! haha, brant is the man...one of my most favorite MK9 players :)

first off, Csz VS rep is CSZ favor. Just an FYI. Though! it can go to be VERY 5 - 5 due to those reasons

-Reptile EX slide is anti CSZ Bomb traps
-EX FB fully charge Stops CSZ from Air kick Diving , period! so use it correctly
-On knock down, FFB can pressure CSZ wake up game. in that case, this is a good option for reptile to pressure while in close or far away
-Learn to bait wake up moves and specials ! if ur not yet acquainted with that, then start gettin use to it! Slide is punishable, Parry is Punishable with any low atack move, and teleport is punishable if CSZ tried to do anything after (even jump) " to null Teleport, use 3,2,1 to pressure opponent...THOUGH! watch the parry if it's a ground to ground teleport, so cr+4 can be good"
-cr+4 on csz is really usefull! though , not when CSZ is free in air! Dive kick auto correct, so watch it. cr+4 is also good to null CSZ cross ups
-Learn CSZ string cause they are nasty! also, his 2,1 string is so fast and does annoying block string stun. so be aware of his High low mix ups, and his pressure string
- Reptile cannot go Frame traping happy with 3,2 or 1's or 3's frame trap or even invis block string traps WITHOUT beeing aware first of the Parry incoming. so, let SCZ adjust to you first!! before u adjust to him! by means, u bait him and not the other way around.
-Bloced dive kick is punishable by f+2~ combos or a simple dash. Recommended ofcourse f+2~ string combos/juggles

-Final thing, Agrresive Reptile is the correct Way in this matchup. My reptile is always aggressive that's why i am WAY different than a lot of other reps. THOUGH! for this match, baiting Slide, Teleport and dive kicks is a MUST!
so , good luck man :)

i would give this match 5 .5 - 4.5 Sub favor or can go 5 - 5 (but yah, i know Sub fans will start shouting now lol...though i am srry, i would say i feel it's 5 - 5 for sure)
PS: Scoot Magge. CSZ can bait Block strings with 2,1! so reptile dahsing recklessly can be VERY painful! not only that, 2,1 is a VERY good and safe baiter/ frame traper.

"Also you can't be scared to put normal force balls on the screen to keep him honest so you can actually set up ex balls"
not entirley correct. FB on screen a lot is Very escapable by his Slide, High IADive kick and teleport....so it's not about FB games at all! it's all about baiting subzero's dive kick to punish with EX FB fully charge (not when it moves, but EX FB use as AA).
so FB game is not a reliable option for rep. this match, reptile will be forced to be all over the place with a lot of strategies

hope i was helpful in any possible way
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No offense, but there are some flaws with this logic:

1) Cyber Sub's 2 1 is zero on block AND on hit, and it's a whopping 15 frames. It is by no means quick. Cyber Sub is dead in the water if he isn't mixing in 1 and D3 against Reptile.

2) If Reptile just doesn't use the forceball outside of knockdown setups, Cyber Sub can't reaction-divekick, period. As far as I'm concerned, it's 5-5, if not 6-4 Reptile. Very doable in either case, but by no means does it favor Cyber Sub. The dash runs all over most of his mixup options.
 
xxteefxx

xxteefxx

Kenshi Moderator
Altaire said:
No offense, but there are some flaws with this logic:


1) Cyber Sub's 2 1 is zero on block AND on hit, and it's a whopping 15 frames. It is by no means quick. Cyber Sub is dead in the water if he isn't mixing in 1 and D3 against Reptile.

2) If Reptile just doesn't use the forceball outside of knockdown setups, Cyber Sub can't reaction-divekick, period. As far as I'm concerned, it's 5-5, if not 6-4 Reptile. Very doable in either case, but by no means does it favor Cyber Sub. The dash runs all over most of his mixup options.
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hey!! offense? come on man, this is a forum ...speak up , freedom! :p

1)Thats the point, sub cr+3 is so fast, hence 2,1 frame trap is good. not only that, but his high low kick mix up combo can be used the same for frame traps. So SCZ Does have a very reliable Frame traps unlike others, with the use or regular strings as well. it's not crucial but it's something to be aware off.
and u reminded me with his two kicks into punch frame traps, cr+3 afterwards is amazing to stuff in moves. not a prob with reptile due to elbow dash, THOUGH! reptile will have a problem, which is CSZ parrying
so if ur fighting someone who is easily getting runed by Elbow dash, means that he's not using the frame traps correctly or even using correct time parrying. A simple blocked elbow dash or a parriable elbow dash will DO stop reptile for spamming it.....you cannot look at one player side only! so for the mix up options, it's very 5 - 5 and thats why it's a little harsh for rep

2)
FB spams against CSZ = NO NO. " Cyber Sub can't reaction-divekick" sure, very correct, but he can teleport as well as slide ? what u think :)?
Also, CSZ can escape EX FB or regular FB oki setups...though, this isnt what i was talking about :S. i was talkin about FB to force him to wake up, if not, then reptile can dash in pressure or wait and bait. I know u can consider it a slight pressure, but i am not talkin about the actual okizeme due to those facts (Teleport, slide and parry).

this match CAN easily go 5.5-4.5 CSZ favor....matter of fact, who u played before that is really tournament level with Csub? if you didnt, then i would suggest you do....i would say this match is 5 -5 (if you read what i wrote carefully you would've seen that i said, I Totally agree that it's 5 - 5, and that it's my personal choice)

it's somehow like Mil delimma...i am one of the people that says it's 5.5 - 4.5 mil favor at worst! people though say it's 7 -3 or even 6 -4 (which i disagree with).
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I agree w my whole heart this match up favors CSZ as teef said

If any reptile online or offline wants to see why invite me or come tag my shoulder at NEC

Hands down TEEf is the toughest reptile I've ever played

AlsO FB on CSz wakeup is a great idea but I'll say this reptiles beware, if u use FB other than ex in any other capacity you're making a mistake whether u r full, close or mid screen.

Also u can interrupt 2 1 1+2
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
That's helpful info about normal force balls, I'm learning that he can decide to dive kick on reaction if the fb is not EH. I haven't had a lot of experience in the CSZ matchup as reptile TBH which is why I was hesitant on posting any info. I do know that 2,1 is a setup for frame traps though and it's not always safe to go for a dash, it's just an option.
 
Muffinmuggers

Muffinmuggers

Banned
Altaire said:
No offense, but there are some flaws with this logic:

1) Cyber Sub's 2 1 is zero on block AND on hit, and it's a whopping 15 frames. It is by no means quick. Cyber Sub is dead in the water if he isn't mixing in 1 and D3 against Reptile.

2) If Reptile just doesn't use the forceball outside of knockdown setups, Cyber Sub can't reaction-divekick, period. As far as I'm concerned, it's 5-5, if not 6-4 Reptile. Very doable in either case, but by no means does it favor Cyber Sub. The dash runs all over most of his mixup options.
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Agreed.. I usually Walk over Cyber Sub zeros.. and hey, whens the next Mortal Monday? I think Citizen Snips put me on the list, so lol i've been waiting xD im excited to be on the list.
 
Altaire

Altaire

Noob
Honestly, when Cyber Sub and Reptile fight up close, it's a race to see what will win, between the parry and the dash. If Reptile tries to dash in between any of his normals during blockstring pressure (2, 2 1, 1, 1 1, 1 1 1), he can risk getting parried. On one hand, an 8% parry doesn't do as much as an 11% dash. On the other hand, a 17% EX dash doesn't do as much as a whopping 35% EX parry (maximum damage you can get off a practical EX parry punish against a grounded opponent from midscreen). Really, it just turns into a guessing game up close, even more so than most matches, for the simple fact that both characters need to use unsafe tools to get ahead.
 
Altaire

Altaire

Noob
Muffinmuggers said:
Agreed.. I usually Walk over Cyber Sub zeros.. and hey, whens the next Mortal Monday? I think Citizen Snips put me on the list, so lol i've been waiting xD im excited to be on the list.
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I still never said you'd walk all over me.

If I can take Milky Situation's Reptile, I can take anything.
 
Muffinmuggers

Muffinmuggers

Banned
Altaire said:
I still never said you'd walk all over me.

If I can take Milky Situation's Reptile, I can take anything.
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Cool story bro, Milky situation's reptile isn't the best reptile, and every one of the good reptiles plays differently. (not saying im the best)
 
Frigid_Alloy

Frigid_Alloy

Their blood will freeze in my hands!
Any changes on this matchup? It's interesting to me because I main both CSZ and Reptile, and when given the option I will mirror for the hell of it. I don't see enough good CSZ's or Reptiles online though, so I can't give a solid opinion.
 
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