Match-up Discussion Reptile Matchup Discussion Thread

[G4S Killin Natzees]

I'm about to go to a meeting but I'll be back to continue this haha

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I don't feel like I have enough MU experience to really comment on the numbers.

seems legit.
I think Reptile beats SZ 6-4 though. No one does this... but you can dash 212. I don't know any other character outside of KL that gets a meterless double digit punish. I always feel so handcuffed when I play SZ against him. Low hitbox and 212 being pretty shitty.... means lots of just 21 and 214 clone along with 224 clone.

do you feel like 214 is that much worse?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Ok so this is what I think Reptile's MU chart looks like:
long list

so... his MU chart is so awkward

it LOOKS awesome.... like a good solid character that could do well at a tourney

then you see... Sonya, Lao and Cyrax.... and you'll run into at least 2 of these in a pool


gah.

 

[Briggs8417]

I honestly never use forceballs in this, spit is kinda primary for me, but dash can avoid every tele, blocked spin gets actual damage compared to Sonya, dive kick doesn't cost 37% if it lands either lol.

Spit is just as useless as fb, all of his zoning tools can be teleported on reaction, yeah you can dash teleports but what does that do for you? Nothing lol you just escaped and now are back to where you started from, no punish, no threats. If you block dive kick you get a dash, spin full combo sure, but really more times than when Lao reads you or counter hits with a spin, he is going to do it when he thinks or knows you are going to hit a button. Lao's dive kick isn't meant for big damage, just for control space and keeping people honest about jumping.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

do you feel like 214 is that much worse?

It lets Reptile sit there... because the clone produced doesn't really crush his d4.
So reptile can just walk away before SZ can dash in a d4.... and if SZ does do this... you can whiff punish with your own d4.

214~clone is basically a "ok lets go back to neutral with this 3 sec barrier" thing.

I may just have a mental block against Reptile... but I've played both sides... and feel much more comfortable as the Green than the Blue.

 

[THTB]

Reptile actually has a better time vs Bird Lao than a lot of the cast.

The JK xx divekick aspect that Bird Lao employs is REALLY fucked with by dash whiff to get out. Because dash switches sides so fast, the divekick will end up tracking TOWARDS Reptile, which he can easily block (made even easier by his short standing hitbox).

On top of this, Reptile's crouching hitbox in tandem with d4 creates some serious problems for Kung Lao trying to apply grounded pressure and teleport at times. From playing PL so often, I would literally just d4 and I was avoiding a bunch of things he wanted to do. It's really, really effective.

I definitely don't think this matchup is in his favor at all. I really think it's even. Kung Lao blows up the neutral forceball game, but Reptile's style of d4 is among the best normals in the game for anti-Kung Lao strategies.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

Okay meeting was canceled.
Chef and joker, about lao;
I'm sure your guys play way better lao's than me so I'm gonna trust you both on that one as well.

Joker about smoke part II;
The bait and punish method is probably way more effective than mine lol. I'll trust you on that cause the only smoke i play is DuBBer Kiir and Jer regularly.

 

[Briggs8417]

I don't feel like I have enough MU experience to really comment on the numbers.

seems legit.
I think Reptile beats SZ 6-4 though. No one does this... but you can dash 212. I don't know any other character outside of KL that gets a meterless double digit punish. I always feel so handcuffed when I play SZ against him. Low hitbox and 212 being pretty shitty.... means lots of just 21 and 214 clone along with 224 clone.

I believe this MU is one of the most honest 5-5's in the game. You don't want to use 21 at all use 22 all day against Rep, and you get safer pressure I promise. I can d4 21 strings all day, the one thing I have to always be concious about in this MU though is the clone. I have to constantly be wary of my dashes. If I sit back and zone I will win, but if you start getting pressure and use the right tools you will shut me down until I make a good read or I get lucky lol. It's so back and forth man, there are so many things to account for against SZ.

 

[Seapeople]

It lets Reptile sit there... because the clone produced doesn't really crush his d4.
So reptile can just walk away before SZ can dash in a d4.... and if SZ does do this... you can whiff punish with your own d4.

214~clone is basically a "ok lets go back to neutral with this 3 sec barrier" thing.

I may just have a mental block against Reptile... but I've played both sides... and feel much more comfortable as the Green than the Blue.

I think Reptile is a special case where he's the only character 21~clone could be really useful against (in the corner). It gives you a full combo if he tries to interrupt with a dash, he can't use d4 once the clone is up, and you can still ex slide him into the clone if he tries to put out a projectile.

 

[Briggs8417]

Okay meeting was canceled.
Chef and joker, about lao;
I'm sure your guys play way better lao's than me so I'm gonna trust you both on that one as well.

Joker about smoke part II;
The bait and punish method is probably way more effective than mine lol. I'll trust you on that cause the only smoke i play is DuBBer Kiir and Jer regularly.

The rushdown aspect of the match will work if you knock him down, but knock him down first. If he starts playing his way though this is what you refer to in order to get momentum back.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I definitely don't think this matchup is in his favor at all. I really think it's even. Kung Lao blows up the neutral forceball game, but Reptile's style of d4 is among the best normals in the game for anti-Kung Lao strategies.

Even!? That's crazy!

A good D4 alone isn't going to win a matchup, especially when Reptile can't start pressure off of it.

Lao just absolutely controls the pace of the match.


Pboard says it's his favorite match, and I've played it with a ton of SoCal Laos (we have a ton) and I would never consider it even close to even.

 

[Briggs8417]

I think Reptile is a special case where he's the only character 21~clone could be really useful against (in the corner). It gives you a full combo if he tries to interrupt with a dash, he can't use d4 once the clone is up, and you can still ex slide him into the clone if he tries to put out a projectile.

21 whiffs on Reptile, I can d4 it consistently and get advantage.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Reptile actually has a better time vs Bird Lao than a lot of the cast.

The JK xx divekick aspect that Bird Lao employs is REALLY fucked with by dash whiff to get out. Because dash switches sides so fast, the divekick will end up tracking TOWARDS Reptile, which he can easily block (made even easier by his short standing hitbox).

On top of this, Reptile's crouching hitbox in tandem with d4 creates some serious problems for Kung Lao trying to apply grounded pressure and teleport at times. From playing PL so often, I would literally just d4 and I was avoiding a bunch of things he wanted to do. It's really, really effective.

I definitely don't think this matchup is in his favor at all. I really think it's even. Kung Lao blows up the neutral forceball game, but Reptile's style of d4 is among the best normals in the game for anti-Kung Lao strategies.

I bet watching this is probably the biggest cluster in the entire game

one character flying around like an obnoxious noob
the other dashing and d4ing around like he's on crack.

 

[THTB]

I bet watching this is probably the biggest cluster in the entire game

one character flying around like an obnoxious noob
the other dashing and d4ing around like he's on crack.

That is EXACTLY what it looks like.

It is the most annoying non-mirror matchup I've ever dealt with in MK9. It's super dumb.

 

[Briggs8417]

THTB d4 and dashes only go so far man, KL is eventually going to get what he wants. I just don't see how the MU is even when those are my two best options against him.

 

[Seapeople]

21 whiffs on Reptile, I can d4 it consistently and get advantage.

Yeah I don't mean using 21 for pressure but whenever 2 is actually blocked (usually after d4 or b121), then 21~clone can be a more reliable set up than 212~clone or 214.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Also Lao has by far the easiest and highest damage meterless punish for EN Dash. (21 and spin both work =[ )



lol Sonya's is good too, I was punishing EN Dash with 114 last night, it's so fun! (when you're Sonya)

 

[Briggs8417]

Yeah I don't mean using 21 for pressure but whenever 2 is actually blocked (usually after d4 or b121), then 21~clone can be a more reliable set up than 212~clone or 214.

Oh ok I gotcha, yeah it can be very useful in that situation.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

I can't say I'd ever agree to lao being even. But he is playing with the two time evo champ here, not the online birds so Idk haha

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

Also Lao has by far the easiest and highest damage meterless punish for EN Dash. (21 and spin both work =[ )



lol Sonya's is good too, I was punishing EN Dash with 114 last night, it's so fun! (when you're Sonya)

Can Sonya 21 cartwheel?

 

[Briggs8417]

I can't say I'd ever agree to lao being even. But he is playing with the two time evo champ here, not the online birds so Idk haha

I've played PL, I play Pboard all the time. I can't even play Reptile in this MU anymore and I'm thinking about learning Cage just to have better odds against him and maybe Sonya. I think it's easily his second worst MU at least.

 

[Briggs8417]

Can Sonya 21 cartwheel?

I think 21 is a little too slow, if it isn't it is definitely harder to land. 1 is only 7 frames.

 

[THTB]

THTB d4 and dashes only go so far man, KL is eventually going to get what he wants. I just don't see how the MU is even when those are my two best options against him.

d4 leads to juggles on teleport, and in general stops a good portion of his offense...you can use the d4 to go into other things if you play it right.

Dash checks him when he's doing one of the safest jumping options in the game. It also checks ground approaches from roll. And punishes low hat up to a smidge from point blank.

Reptile's oki game still works for the most part...when done right, teleport isn't a stop to it at all. So he still has that aspect of his game.

This is probably the one matchup I know like the palm of my hand. d4 and dash may be the best options he has, but they are very good at what they do. Remember, Joker, up until MLG Columbus, I was playing PL's Kung Lao A LOT. Like, literally, from the very beginning.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

I think 21 is a little too slow, if it isn't it is definitely harder to land. 1 is only 7 frames.

Damn haha.
And maybe i should find some more lao's to play.

 

[Briggs8417]

d4 leads to juggles on teleport, and in general stops a good portion of his offense...you can use the d4 to go into other things if you play it right.

Dash checks him when he's doing one of the safest jumping options in the game. It also checks ground approaches from roll. And punishes low hat up to a smidge from point blank.

Reptile's oki game still works for the most part...when done right, teleport isn't a stop to it at all. So he still has that aspect of his game.

This is probably the one matchup I know like the palm of my hand. d4 and dash may be the best options he has, but they are very good at what they do. Remember, Joker, up until MLG Columbus, I was playing PL's Kung Lao A LOT. Like, literally, from the very beginning.

I'm not doubting anything that you are saying, I know it's all true I just don't see how this make it even. Doing all this on a consistent basis isn't easy, and I honestly can't hit d4/d1 tele punishes consistently. That could just be on me I won't lie there I don't practice that a lot, but I can't do it. Reptile has to make a LOT of adjustments to his oki game in order for it to work effectively. Reptile has such limited options and has to adjust so much of his core game in order to fight this character, while KL just has to watch his dive kicks. If I'm handicapped so hard while he isn't how is the MU even?