I'm really loving reptile since picking him up. He's not a "temporary" character either, I have more fun picking and playing him than I do Kenshi despite the win/loss result
I meant to add Cassie as well. Lao might be a 5-5, but one of the big reasons I don't feel like it's in Rep's favor against Jax or Cassie is that they punish your b34 without having to spend meter to do so. So you have to spend meter for b3 xx ex invisibility if you want to try to do any damage off your low starter and stay safe on block.
I meant to add Cassie as well. Lao might be a 5-5, but one of the big reasons I don't feel like it's in Rep's favor against Jax or Cassie is that they punish your b34 without having to spend meter to do so. So you have to spend meter for b3 xx ex invisibility if you want to try to do any damage off your low starter and stay safe on block.
Reptile can punish pretty well his f34 and f33 so thats nice because until picking him up i had on idea what that felt like
The zoning is not bad against her, if you get the ball game going it works well especially when you see her jump and you MB a ball for wombo combo kreygasm hype
i need more games in this mu but im hopeful its 5-5
@OFIDYAN@G4S J360@Milkman @YOMI MITYEAP
Can we discuss the shinnok MU? What are your thoughts on this MU?
DOs?
DONTs?
PROs
CONs?
Currently I feel his bad MUs are the following:
Liu Kang 3-7 F this character
Tremor 4-6 or worse. Feels real bad
Sub zero 4-6
Shinnok idk currently see it as 4-6
All others I feel are 5-5 or better unless I missed one
Really interested in your thoughts
Here is what I know man... Wound told me he wouldn't go Impostor on me because he doesn't like stealing the forceball. I don't really think Necromancer can handle Reptile. I've played against Alucard's some and it's just not really that scary at all. I can link a video of me playing against Wound, but it is pre-patch Shinnok. (When he had the op vortex) I think regardless it is going to be a tough matchup. There doesn't seem to be very many safe places for Reptile to be in against BS and he will get zoned out. You really can't contest the zoning because of how slow forceball is so you have to resort to burning meter sometimes with slippery slide and just try to keep him down, plus have aggressiveness to not let him get up and zone you again. It kind of feels like Reptile vs Shang from MK9, but worse. I plan to learn this MU better at some point! When I do I will be posting all my info in my matchup thread.
Wound told me he feels like Boneshaper is probably best for Reptile. He said he doesn't like how Impostor steals such a terrible move aka forceball. This matchup is going to be tough, of course he can out zone Reptile, but a few well placed EX slides can go a long way. Hope you block the low scoop and you can full combo punish. I don't know much on this one yet. We didn't have much time to play it.
Soon I will break things down into 3 main points; The Triple P!
-Punishes (What moves are punishable, have gaps, etc. Also how to set up punishable situations)
-Positioning (Where are to best places to be against the opponent, where to stand for normals, where to throw projectiles etc.)
-Plus (When does the character have advantage, what can be done after the fact)
Yeah man and if they (Sub-Zero) tech roll slide they go right into it for a punish!
Here is what I know man... Wound told me he wouldn't go Impostor on me because he doesn't like stealing the forceball. I don't really think Necromancer can handle Reptile. I've played against Alucard's some and it's just not really that scary at all. I can link a video of me playing against Wound, but it is pre-patch Shinnok. (When he had the op vortex) I think regardless it is going to be a tough matchup. There doesn't seem to be very many safe places for Reptile to be in against BS and he will get zoned out. You really can't contest the zoning because of how slow forceball is so you have to resort to burning meter sometimes with slippery slide and just try to keep him down, plus have aggressiveness to not let him get up and zone you again. It kind of feels like Reptile vs Shang from MK9, but worse. I plan to learn this MU better at some point! When I do I will be posting all my info in my matchup thread.
Wound told me he feels like Boneshaper is probably best for Reptile. He said he doesn't like how Impostor steals such a terrible move aka forceball. This matchup is going to be tough, of course he can out zone Reptile, but a few well placed EX slides can go a long way. Hope you block the low scoop and you can full combo punish. I don't know much on this one yet. We didn't have much time to play it.
Soon I will break things down into 3 main points; The Triple P!
-Punishes (What moves are punishable, have gaps, etc. Also how to set up punishable situations)
-Positioning (Where are to best places to be against the opponent, where to stand for normals, where to throw projectiles etc.)
-Plus (When does the character have advantage, what can be done after the fact)
So usedforglue shot this at me, in theory it seemed genius
Hey man.
I was trying to say as shortly as possible about the stealth thing in chat, but here is all my next meta Reptile stuff I have been working on.
STEALH PROJECTILE TRADE THING:
What I am basically saying is, the regular stealth in most cases is a no risk trade in a projectile sort of war.
An example would be, if you block a full screen projectile, do the normal stealth, best case scenario is that the opponent respects an acid spit trade and you get the stealth out uninterrupted, and then you get a forceball out, if the opponent throws a projectile during the force ball, you might get the force ball out, but you will take no damage for it.
Worst case scenario is that the opponent fires another projectile and knocks you out of your stealth before you recover, again you take no damage.
NO RISK MB REVERSAL: NO OTHER CHARACTER CAN DO THIS IN MKX
Instead of using MB Claw and maybe guessing wrong, you can do MB invisibility. This allows you to be wrong on your guess and still be right...MKX STYLE!
You recover like crazy for a D3, this will low profile all high attacks in the game, and some average mids.
On block you are safe, on hit you are invisible with advantage.
You will never really be wrong, same as Erron black with his safe + on block launcher, or KL's B2 Hat spin safe on block shit, or Quan Chi's Advantage on Block 50/50's... Reptile also has this but for reversals on all his negative frames.
If you are super ballsy, you can do F41 or something instead of D3.
So try doing F412 claw, does 5% chip and builds 6/16 of a bar, do MB Stealth D3, and low projectile any string reversal, or the MB Stealth will armour the opponents poke...its a win win dude, unless they armour, but why would they armour when reptile is -6...?
Also, F412 MB Stealth into F412 Claw or Overhead Flip builds HALF A BAR BACK on block, so really you are getting 6 stealths for a full bar.
If you are truly unsure if the opponent will armour after you F412 MB Stealth then just cross them over...
AA:
Uppercut unto MB Slide is 19%.
Uppercut into RC F21 Grab is 23% (this has to be like Ermac's MK9 Uppercut conversions, the opponent has to be at the top of their jump)
Or uppercut, RC F21 MB Grab, NJP, RC F41 Slide for 32%...
B2 is an excellent anti crossover punisher, into F412 Spit, then normal stealth for 23%...unless they are teleport characters, don't do the stealth or follow up force ball.
TYPICAL MKX BULLSHIT:
F4 Slide.
F41 Slide.
Seriously, in the past I would have thought this was suicide, in this game, its totally normal.
Once they know you do this, they literally can't block F412 MB Stealth, with is +8 on block...if this hits, F21 Grab for invisible HKD, then wiff an elbow dash to switch the input on their wake up, then basically do anything, just throw out B1D4 fast ball...
Reptile is my new main, came 4th in this weeks ESL pre season, been labbing the absolute shit out of him.
Also, when you are invisible, you are always able to do F412 Close Flip, its safe on block, and the opponent would have to armour panic, as you can armour between the 2 and flip, because its overhead it seems to hit the opponent a lot when invisible.
So usedforglue shot this at me, in theory it seemed genius
Hey man.
I was trying to say as shortly as possible about the stealth thing in chat, but here is all my next meta Reptile stuff I have been working on.
STEALH PROJECTILE TRADE THING:
What I am basically saying is, the regular stealth in most cases is a no risk trade in a projectile sort of war.
An example would be, if you block a full screen projectile, do the normal stealth, best case scenario is that the opponent respects an acid spit trade and you get the stealth out uninterrupted, and then you get a forceball out, if the opponent throws a projectile during the force ball, you might get the force ball out, but you will take no damage for it.
Worst case scenario is that the opponent fires another projectile and knocks you out of your stealth before you recover, again you take no damage.
NO RISK MB REVERSAL: NO OTHER CHARACTER CAN DO THIS IN MKX
Instead of using MB Claw and maybe guessing wrong, you can do MB invisibility. This allows you to be wrong on your guess and still be right...MKX STYLE!
You recover like crazy for a D3, this will low profile all high attacks in the game, and some average mids.
On block you are safe, on hit you are invisible with advantage.
You will never really be wrong, same as Erron black with his safe + on block launcher, or KL's B2 Hat spin safe on block shit, or Quan Chi's Advantage on Block 50/50's... Reptile also has this but for reversals on all his negative frames.
If you are super ballsy, you can do F41 or something instead of D3.
So try doing F412 claw, does 5% chip and builds 6/16 of a bar, do MB Stealth D3, and low projectile any string reversal, or the MB Stealth will armour the opponents poke...its a win win dude, unless they armour, but why would they armour when reptile is -6...?
Also, F412 MB Stealth into F412 Claw or Overhead Flip builds HALF A BAR BACK on block, so really you are getting 6 stealths for a full bar.
If you are truly unsure if the opponent will armour after you F412 MB Stealth then just cross them over...
AA:
Uppercut unto MB Slide is 19%.
Uppercut into RC F21 Grab is 23% (this has to be like Ermac's MK9 Uppercut conversions, the opponent has to be at the top of their jump)
Or uppercut, RC F21 MB Grab, NJP, RC F41 Slide for 32%...
B2 is an excellent anti crossover punisher, into F412 Spit, then normal stealth for 23%...unless they are teleport characters, don't do the stealth or follow up force ball.
TYPICAL MKX BULLSHIT:
F4 Slide.
F41 Slide.
Seriously, in the past I would have thought this was suicide, in this game, its totally normal.
Once they know you do this, they literally can't block F412 MB Stealth, with is +8 on block...if this hits, F21 Grab for invisible HKD, then wiff an elbow dash to switch the input on their wake up, then basically do anything, just throw out B1D4 fast ball...
Reptile is my new main, came 4th in this weeks ESL pre season, been labbing the absolute shit out of him.
Also, when you are invisible, you are always able to do F412 Close Flip, its safe on block, and the opponent would have to armour panic, as you can armour between the 2 and flip, because its overhead it seems to hit the opponent a lot when invisible.
Eh some of that is sort of okay I guess in theory. However, in real life Reptile's Invisibility after something negative isn't as godlike as he's making sound. Please trust I'm not trying to downplay I'm just going to state some facts..
- Invisibility after being Negative
If you try to do Invisibility after the f412~klaw block string the opponent can easily break your armor from starting up their string since it is still their turn, why wouldn't they attempt a string? This (Your Armor) will be broken before you can even get out a d3.. you will be getting hit. If you decide you want to do that after something less negative like f41, f21, or even d3 you will still get hit so why not just cancel into the Invisibility from the string for the advantage?
- Stealth Trades in Zoning
This is actually horrible against real zoners. It is kind of cool that Reptile doesn't take any damage while in Stealth, but that is only for one hit. Let's put the scenario against Kitana.. She throws fan, you block, she throws another fan while you go Stealth (why the f wouldn't she throw another fan?!) you get hit by the fan and take no damage, but she's already throwing another one which you then have to block. Now you can repeat the process until you die from chip or how about just get shot up by Jacqui, take a similar scenario from Kano, maybe try it on HQT Predator and see how that feels? Lol
-F21 Grab Invisible HKD LMAO
First of all think about how many characters have armored wakeup launchers/combo starters in this game. It's like 80% It is not hard to input your wakeup on the other side once you see the camera movement and green trail Reptile leaves behind from Reptilian Dashing to the other side. Plus the sound of course. Is it really going to matter that you don't take damage on the first hit of the wakeup when it hits you because you're trying b1d4? (Or anything else other than an armor move) You're getting killed from a combo now or better yet lets say Sonya just did her Leg Slam "Sure you didn't take any damage" Did you honestly think the Sonya player wanted to do damage to you with that??? Hell no. They want to get out of the situation, knock you down, and start their 50/50 game. There are setups where you can knock the opponent down and do Invisibility to counteract their wakeup because you have armor and then start going into your string even if they just block or delay it is a good option for more pressure, but this is not what he's talking about.
Okay so now that the facts are out of the way I'll state my opinion. This is just another overreaction to how good people think Deceptive actually is. You're going to hear things like "INVISIBLE MIXUPS!" and all that, but why does it matter that they are invisible? They were not react-able any way. You don't need to be invisible to hit people with Reptile's 50/50's. The pressure in Deceptive can be plus, but if you don't do a d3 right after most of the strings you're canceling Invisibility into there is a gap. (Unless you do standing 4~Invisibility for some reason) If someone is having a hard time fighting against it tell them to attempt armoring sometimes on the moment they see you go invisible. Yes you can go invisible and be safe, so sure block a 6 frame poke or a plus armored launcher and lose you're invisibility that you spent a bar on. It isn't a variation that makes Reptile a top tier in the game. He is still a meter hungry character that needs bars to convert. Use your bars in pressure and maybe open someone up, but just remember if you don't open them up then later on you're going to wish you had those bars to convert well.
Eh some of that is sort of okay I guess in theory. However, in real life Reptile's Invisibility after something negative isn't as godlike as he's making sound. Please trust I'm not trying to downplay I'm just going to state some facts..
- Invisibility after being Negative
If you try to do Invisibility after the f412~klaw block string the opponent can easily break your armor from starting up their string since it is still their turn, why wouldn't they attempt a string? This (Your Armor) will be broken before you can even get out a d3.. you will be getting hit. If you decide you want to do that after something less negative like f41, f21, or even d3 you will still get hit so why not just cancel into the Invisibility from the string for the advantage?
- Stealth Trades in Zoning
This is actually horrible against real zoners. It is kind of cool that Reptile doesn't take any damage while in Stealth, but that is only for one hit. Let's put the scenario against Kitana.. She throws fan, you block, she throws another fan while you go Stealth (why the f wouldn't she throw another fan?!) you get hit by the fan and take no damage, but she's already throwing another one which you then have to block. Now you can repeat the process until you die from chip or how about just get shot up by Jacqui, take a similar scenario from Kano, maybe try it on HQT Predator and see how that feels? Lol
-F21 Grab Invisible HKD LMAO
First of all think about how many characters have armored wakeup launchers/combo starters in this game. It's like 80% It is not hard to input your wakeup on the other side once you see the camera movement and green trail Reptile leaves behind from Reptilian Dashing to the other side. Plus the sound of course. Is it really going to matter that you don't take damage on the first hit of the wakeup when it hits you because you're trying b1d4? (Or anything else other than an armor move) You're getting killed from a combo now or better yet lets say Sonya just did her Leg Slam "Sure you didn't take any damage" Did you honestly think the Sonya player wanted to do damage to you with that??? Hell no. They want to get out of the situation, knock you down, and start their 50/50 game. There are setups where you can knock the opponent down and do Invisibility to counteract their wakeup because you have armor and then start going into your string even if they just block or delay it is a good option for more pressure, but this is not what he's talking about.
Okay so now that the facts are out of the way I'll state my opinion. This is just another overreaction to how good people think Deceptive actually is. You're going to hear things like "INVISIBLE MIXUPS!" and all that, but why does it matter that they are invisible? They were not react-able any way. You don't need to be invisible to hit people with Reptile's 50/50's. The pressure in Deceptive can be plus, but if you don't do a d3 right after most of the strings you're canceling Invisibility into there is a gap. (Unless you do standing 4~Invisibility for some reason) If someone is having a hard time fighting against it tell them to attempt armoring sometimes on the moment they see you go invisible. Yes you can go invisible and be safe, so sure block a 6 frame poke or a plus armored launcher and lose you're invisibility that you spent a bar on. It isn't a variation that makes Reptile a top tier in the game. He is still a meter hungry character that needs bars to convert. Use your bars in pressure and maybe open someone up, but just remember if you don't open them up then later on you're going to wish you had those bars to convert well.
At the moment I still believe Deceptive to be the best, but it is starting to become matchup dependent for me on Reptile's variations. Some matchups I like using Noxious, most of them I like Deceptive, but there are quite a few where Nimble is good too so that you can compete in the damage output area. Nimble is also great against characters with fair/bad wakeups.
To sum the variations up in the current state:
Pros Deceptive: Pressure
(Being plus and invisible seems to freak everyone out so you get mad respect as of now)
Nimble: Conversions
(In the corner especially good, has good converts with corner carry as well, decent pressure for Basilisk mode because opponents start up frames are multiplied)
Noxious: Meterless + Safeness
(Great safe setups, able to bait out moves easily and limits the opponents comeback factor)
Cons Deceptive: Meter Hungry
(You can use your meter in pressure with the risk of the opponent armoring/poking out of some strings, and/or you can block and lose your Invisibility that you used a bar to do in the first place)
Nimble: High Risks
(Very punishable on most setup options. Also cannot block while in Basilisk and you do hardly any chip at all)
Noxious: Stale Pressure
(You have to use bare bones Reptile pressure. Forever King poked me after every f41 stutter, and it took several matches to condition him to respect 21. I was poked for so long until he was hit with enough d3's, then comes the amor that can easily beat you because you're only plus 2)
I guess u mean f41EXbf4, aka slippery slide, because Reptile never have df4 special, if i right then there is no other way, only d3, but i dont see any reason for doing that, only against opponent without mutchup experience, but if u do f4EXbf4 for mixup it pops up a little higher, so thats much easyer to link d3 after.
I guess u mean f41EXbf4, aka slippery slide, because Reptile never have df4 special, if i right then there is no other way, only d3, but i dont see any reason for doing that, only against opponent without mutchup experience, but if u do f4EXbf4 for mixup it pops up a little higher, so thats much easyer to link d3 after.
You can do f412 ex invis rc, 21, rc, f412 slide for 30% but I haven't practiced it as much as i'd like to so l just do f412 ex invis, rc, f412 spit for 27%
You can do f412 ex invis rc, 21, rc, f412 slide for 30% but I haven't practiced it as much as i'd like to so l just do f412 ex invis, rc, f412 spit for 27%
I swear Reptile's combos are really hard to pull off (For me at least). In all honesty, I think some of Rep's combos are harder than a lot of Cassie's I know.
