Rejoice my fellow Graysons (patch 1.06)

[Sajam]

Uh....preaching to the choir, I guess? It's a nice buff, but it FAR from addresses Dick's biggest flaws, which are movement speed and speed of his normals. Save Grundy against and maybe Diana, we didn't really need MB staff spin.

Again, good to have, but it's always worked properly in most of our worst matchups.

Having MB staff spin fixed maybe wasn't what Dick needed the MOST but it made the most sense. His mobility is bad, but unfortunately if you aren't a handful of characters then you probably have that issue anyway.

His normals are fine, and don't need to faster. You sacrifice mobility for faster normals by switching to staff. Making a conscious choice on what stance to be in is half of what playing NW is about. What did you want, a 6 framd d1?

Also, mb staff whiffing in the Catwoman/Grundy/Batgirl/KF matchups were all terrible. Not having a reliable way to get safe pressure with staff is a big problem in all of those matchups.

 

[Wasted]

Having MB staff spin fixed maybe wasn't what Dick needed the MOST but it made the most sense. His mobility is bad, but unfortunately if you aren't a handful of characters then you probably have that issue anyway.

No excuse for poor design. Dick is a fucking acrobat on Kryptonian super-drugs, and canonically faster than Batman.

His normals are fine, and don't need to faster. You sacrifice speed of normals for mobility by switching to staff.

You of all people should know better than to use 'mobility' and 'staff' in the same sentence. Escrima has horrible range on it's main combo starters. Escrima 3 has good range, as does D1, and of course B2. We live in a world of Superman F2. Dick has a a fucking baton in each hand, but F2 and 1 have pretty lackluster range. It makes no sense.

Making a conscious choice on what stance to be in is half of what playing NW is about. What did you want, a 6 framd d1?

Yes, I do want a 6-frame escrima D1, actually. It's not needed, but yes, it's wanted. Like a lot of characters, I am not satisfied that Dick is all he can be in this game. He needs to be slightly faster all around - damage and frames, whiffing staff spins and such can remain the same.

Also, mb staff whiffing in the Catwoman/Grundy/Batgirl/KF matchups were all terrible. Not having a reliable way to get safe pressure with staff is a big problem in all of those matchups.

We won or went even in all those matchups.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Nightwing (Vol. 2), 2001, Issue 52. "He moves just like his mentor. Only it's more fluid somehow. He's *faster* than Batman. But only by a whisker. And that's the difference between life and death tonight."

Yea, NW always been faster than Batman, especially in his prime. I love playing with Nightwing, NRS didn't do the job in making him fight like how he does in comics, however NW is still fun to play with so I'll give NRS my love...I guess being a fanboy I want everything perfect.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Dick has a a fucking baton in each hand, but F2 and 1 have pretty lackluster range. It makes no sense.

.

I want to quote this in my signature.
You're gold.

 

[Sajam]

Wait, a meant sacrifice mobility for speed of normals. As in, you sacrifice the mobility of escrima for the normals of staff.

Dick can play footsies with 90% of the cast with his normals as they are. B2 has great range on it's combo starters, especially b2. F2 isn't fast, but you don't need it to be with how Dick can play in neutral. Uh, NW's d1 is good enough as it is. He would need to completely lose the plus frames on it for it to be 6 frames, as well as making d12 more negative, meaning jumping out d12's follow up options would be even easier.

Yeah, NW loses to Frost, and goes even with the rest of those mentioned. Even with the matchup numbers how they are, staff spin completely changes how NW can play those matchups. I don't think people understand how absolutely worthless any type of stance change outside of 33 is without mb staff spin against an opponent who understands the matchup.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

I was hoping for faster normals just based on Night's damage output being below average compared to the rest of cast also considering the universal walk speed in this game not being in Nightwing's favor. Dick does have a great dash that makes up for everything so it's really nothing to get upset about, atleast he didn't get nerf like Black Adam.

 

[Sajam]

I was hoping for faster normals just based on Night's damage output being below average compared to the rest of cast also considering the universal walk speed in this game not being in Nightwing's favor. Dick does have a great dash that makes up for everything so it's really nothing to get upset about, atleast he didn't get nerf like Black Adam.

His damage isn't low.

He should be hitting mid 40% with every touch that isn't a b2, and his corner damage is always going to be very high because of staff, or lead into another setup in escrima.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

His damage isn't low.

He should be hitting mid 40% with every touch that isn't a b2, and his corner damage is always going to be very high because of staff, or lead into another setup in escrima.

His damage definitely isn't high.

So NW got 55-70% corner combos like those characters ranged in the top 10?

I need to get on that.

 

[Wasted]

Ah, fair enough. Thought that might have been the case, but internet etiquette demands I interpret things as printed.

I've no issue with F2's speed, just it's range. Escrima D1 and Staff D1 are both +3. I agree, losing some of those plus frames would be required. I'd be fine making D1 +1 or +0, and D12 +4 or +5.

MB staff will make those matches better, obviously, but we didn't really NEED it. If we had faster normals, we'd have more options to go in most of those people with.

 

[Sajam]

His damage definitely isn't high.

So NW got 55-70% corner combos like those characters ranged in the top 10?

I need to get on that.

I meant high in comparison to escrima, not compared to other characters. People just aren't optimizing their combos right now, so they aren't getting the damage they should be.

Plus, those corner combos are supposed to be getting nerfed anyway, so we won't know how other characters will be hitting until after the patch.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Ah, fair enough. Thought that might have been the case, but internet etiquette demands I interpret things as printed.

I've no issue with F2's speed, just it's range. Escrima D1 and Staff D1 are both +3. I agree, losing some of those plus frames would be required. I'd be fine making D1 +1 or +0, and D12 +4 or +5.

MB staff will make those matches better, obviously, but we didn't really NEED it. If we had faster normals, we'd have more options to go in most of those people with.

that's what I was hoping for. MB staff is a dope buff, but faster normals was on my wishlist first.

 

[Wasted]

His damage definitely isn't high.

So NW got 55-70% corner combos like those characters ranged in the top 10?

I need to get on that.

A lot of characters in the game need meter to get really high damage. Dick's damage is pretty consistent whether he's spending meter or not. He can still hit high 40's with staff in the corner. Basically, he still removes a life bar in two or three combos, and that's all that matters. He doesn't need 4 combos to kill someone like Sinestro or Zatanna.

Zatanna's damage is low. Dick's is average. He's got so many ways to reset though, so he turns that 33% into like, 60% pretty often.

 

[Sajam]

Ah, fair enough. Thought that might have been the case, but internet etiquette demands I interpret things as printed.

I've no issue with F2's speed, just it's range. Escrima D1 and Staff D1 are both +3. I agree, losing some of those plus frames would be required. I'd be fine making D1 +1 or +0, and D12 +4 or +5.

MB staff will make those matches better, obviously, but we didn't really NEED it. If we had faster normals, we'd have more options to go in most of those people with.

I don't think the speed of his normals are a big problem in the long run. There are lots of situations where your opponent is negative, and you can force them to block 112 into 33 setups. Sure we don't get a d1 check, but at least we get to force a 50/50.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Disappointed that Staff Spin glitch was the only one they fixed. And yeah, the dude having at least a double jump in Escrima would be nice.

But other than that I'm content. It could have been a lot worse, to be honest.

 

[Wasted]

I have no faith in 112. None.

It gets ducked far too often and even if it makes contact, people don't block it, leaving me to spark cancel and work my way back in all over again.

 

[TakeAChance]

I think we dicks all need to rejoice that:

1) We weren't nerfed. (that's a huge deal)
2) We actually got a mid fix. This is huge in some matchups
3) Some of our hardest matchups (Superman, BA, etc) have all recieved some pretty hefty nerfs.

While we may not have been effected personally, we have been buffed by other characters normalizations.

 

[Wasted]

The changes are all welcome. They're just not what we need, nor even what we deserve.

DUN-DUN-DUUUUNNNN

 

[TakeAChance]

I have no faith in 112. None.

It gets ducked far too often and even if it makes contact, people don't block it, leaving me to spark cancel and work my way back in all over again.

Dash 112 is my go to if I get in. I don't buffer anything. It's +21 and leaves you in 33 range. 33 guarantees Staff mode, a spark, a flip kick etc.

112 is meant to be blocked naked.

113 is your punisher

F213 is your ranged mid. (distance punisher)

b2 is your footsie tool

33 is your safety switch string.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

I meant high in comparison to escrima, not compared to other characters. People just aren't optimizing their combos right now, so they aren't getting the damage they should be.

Plus, those corner combos are supposed to be getting nerfed anyway, so we won't know how other characters will be hitting until after the patch.

Well, it'll be interesting to see how the patch balances that corner damage for other characters.

We may agree that the game got somewhat easier for Nightwing considering the nerfs to some of his worst match ups.

NW's optimized combos doesn't rank top 15-20 in the game compared with the rest of the cast's optimized combos. His damage output is below average is all I'm saying.

 

[Sajam]

Yeah, tons of changes this patch indirectly buffed Nightwing.

Being able to MB through stuff for half damage actually helped him a significant amount, and the 2 bar requirement for MBing interactables nerfed most large characters more than small ones. Oh, and no dumpster nerfs leaves me pleased. I was going to do a big write up about all the changes that helped him, but you guys probably figured it out by now.

His bad matchups got small buffs, and his hard matchups got mostly nerfed. Yessssss

 

[Sajam]

Well, it'll be interesting to see how the patch balances that corner damage for other characters.

We may agree that the game got somewhat easier for Nightwing considering the nerfs to some of his worst match ups.

NW's optimized combos doesn't rank top 15-20 in the game compared with the rest of the cast's optimized combos. His damage output is below average is all I'm saying.

I mean, he gets 40% without a jump in, mid 40% in the corner with or without meter depending on your starter, and he can get almost 40% meterless midscreen to punish certain things.

I'm not gonna lie, 70% corner combos with NW would be hilariously dumb/awesome.

 

[Wasted]

Dash 112 is my go to if I get in. I don't buffer anything. It's +21 and leaves you in 33 range. 33 guarantees Staff mode, a spark, a flip kick etc.

Yes, yes, yes, I know all this. But it's high and ducking it shuts down most of what you were aiming for. People I play with have wisened up and won't let you get away with abusing it. They'll duck the 11 or take hit from the 2 to get away from you.

112 is meant to be blocked naked.

Meant to be, yes, but fails often in practice.

113 is your punisher

F213 is your ranged mid. (distance punisher)

b2 is your footsie tool

33 is your safety switch string.

I know all this - these work mostly fine.

 

[TakeAChance]

Yes, yes, yes, I know all this. But it's high and ducking it shuts down most of what you were aiming for. People I play with have wisened up and won't let you get away with abusing it. They'll duck the 11 or take hit from the 2 to get away from you.



Meant to be, yes, but fails often in practice.



I know all this - these work mostly fine.

11 is 8f.

If they are ducking in anticipation of your dashes, start sparking, or checking them with the b2. It's within the same range.

 

[Espio]

Dude Grundy's hitbox is allllll kinds of fucked up. I think he could duck MB Mace Charge lmao.

He indeed could and combo punish it as well.

 

[Wasted]

Yes, I know that too. 11 is 8 frames, but the starting 1 is 6.

I almost never use 112 anymore, and I have to be honest, I don't see many other NWs getting mileage out of it either. It's great in theory, but is too easy to shut down. NWs other tools are much better at pressuring and opening someone up.

Mids, lows and overheads are what rule this game, not high.