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Razors (still) do not function properly.

Lt. Boxy Angelman

(NOTHING)
Premium Supporter
Tom Brady uploaded a very good video demonstrating some of the game's hitbox inconsistencies, including Kitana's for those people who need more visuals and explanations.

This is nuts. I knew Cage and Kitana had problems, but this to put it nicely is a ****ing great big bag of oof.

The point at the end sums it up soundly: there's a time for telling everyone to level up, and a time for addressing real problems.
Solid, concise, informative video.

In my personal opinion: it makes zero sense that the same studio keeps making the same consistent mistakes for so many years, especially when it's occupied by some of the first major players ever to have to deal with them, as if the broken mechanics are supposed to count as means of balance. Meanwhile, other huge oversights that were allowed to fly - the MK9 resets and MKX armored launchers chief among them - have been done away with completely. It's a mess of inconsistency in and of itself.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Is there any reason to believe this stuff isn't intentional? You'd think stuff like this and hitbox issues would be the easiest fixes to make there's no "too good" there's just it works or it doesn't
I have been playing fighting games for almost 20 years, and while female hitboxes and low-profiling are very old concepts, the fact that strings and special moves hit randomly or fail to hit entirely on a stand-blocking or crouch-blocking character is something that I cannot recall witnessing from playing many Street Fighter and Tekken games. This issue is unacceptable in 2020 by a major fighting game developer.

Another hitbox video by Tom, and this time on hit...

 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

(NOTHING)
Premium Supporter
I have been playing fighting games for almost 20 years, and while female hitboxes and low-profiling are very old concepts, the fact that strings and special moves hit randomly or fail to hit entirely on a stand-blocking or crouch-blocking character is something that I cannot recall witnessing from playing many Street Fighter and Tekken games. This issue is unacceptable in 2020 by a major fighting game developer.

Another hitbox video by Tom, and this time on hit...

Jeezus with a side of Christ, that is dumb. I would not want to be a Terminator main right now.

Ten years later, same 3D problems on a 2D field. Now all we need is someone like MK9 Baraka who couldn't hit his corner combos right if his stance was facing in the wrong direction, and history will have fully repeated itself.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
The FB'ing of razors by chars that could was posted on twitter a while back by x-azeez dude. There's no rhyme or reason to it. He has a whole video on it and how certain chars can do the walkback punish thing like Sheeva.
When I'm using HB, and I notice the razors reacting differently against chars on block, I usually mix in regular db2 razors to screw with their timing.

FWIW I still like Highborn against Sheeva.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
I know I made another thread about the razors' lack of functionality almost a year ago, but please hear me out.

I was watching @DarksydeDash (Highborn Kitana) fight Scar (Lotus Fight) very late last night and I noticed that the second hit of the razors would randomly whiff after b+1,4 on a stand-blocking Kung Lao. This whiff causes a flawless-blockable gap that Kung Lao can punish with u+2. Because of the randomness, DarksydeDash began stopping the razors after the first hit, which is always punishable at -9 on block, leading to a guessing game that was in Scar's favor.

Before you post "Who cares? Make the right read, bro.", the whiff seems entirely random after an hour and half of testing and experimenting with various scenarios (i.e., different ranges and block patterns). However, I have discovered that the whiff most frequently occurs against characters who sort of "lean back" while they are stand-blocking (e.g., Kung Lao and Raiden). Against characters who, for lack of a better description, expose their chests or hands while blocking (e.g., Robocop and Shang Tsung), the whiff is less likely to occur but still can.

Some characters can also back dash after blocking the first hit of the razors, but I can only confirm Cetrion and Sheeva as of the publishing of this post. In fact, if you back dash and cancel into a normal or special move at the appropriate time, you can punish Kitana. So if you think Higborn Kitana beats Sheeva 7:3 because of razors, think again.

I was a massive Kitana up player because of razors, yet no more because of these issues. I am disappointed that razors still do not function properly after having allegedly been fixed two or three times in previous hotfixes and patches. I think I will be sticking to V2 Robocop until this problem gets addressed, if it ever legitimately does.
Kitana community was okay with a broke move didnt complain because it has been in their favor for so long. Its randomness is punishment for not complaining quick enough.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

(NOTHING)
Premium Supporter
We already have Digital Soldier Cassie Cage who can't do corner combos so.....
That is factual and valid and gross.
Maybe worse than MK9 Baraka because there's no fix for it and it's essential to her entire game plan.

But the goofiness of opening someone up, carrying them all the way to the corner, and then essentially giving up your turn by having to Stance Switch because you know your big boom combo is going to drop if you don't (I do not miss invincible wakeup specials one bit), was a memorable experience for all the wrong reasons.

And yet, here we all are again.

(oof)
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
Kitana community was okay with a broke move didnt complain because it has been in their favor for so long. Its randomness is punishment for not complaining quick enough.
I mean Erron Black has been getting away with dodging people's hitboxes since launch. Is there any character that DOESNT whiff on Erron? I seen people complain about that and nothing happens.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
I mean Erron Black has been getting away with dodging people's hitboxes since launch. Is there any character that DOESNT whiff on Erron? I seen people complain about that and nothing happens.
Black, kitana and kabal all play this weird annoying game of how can we annoy you the most and do that for wins. Deplorable archetype how b222 exist how kabals fullscreen mid works razors for kitana people honestly do not talk about these characters.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
The FB'ing of razors by chars that could was posted on twitter a while back by x-azeez dude. There's no rhyme or reason to it. He has a whole video on it and how certain chars can do the walkback punish thing like Sheeva.
When I'm using HB, and I notice the razors reacting differently against chars on block, I usually mix in regular db2 razors to screw with their timing.

FWIW I still like Highborn against Sheeva.
Edenian razors used to have more inconsistencies, but NRS have fixed a couple of them to their credit. I know that Azeez and Red Raptor shared some videos a while ago, but I am not certain if they discussed the fact that the issues are character-dependent or sometimes even random.

As Tom mentioned in his video, the first hit of the razors is always -9 on block and jab punishable by all characters. The third hit is always safe but flawless blockable when the second hit whiffs. If I recall correctly, a flawless block u+2 must start up in 10 frames or faster in order to punish Kitana. This meta is currently not in Kitana's favor, especially against characters who have krushing blows on jabs and 9 frame u+2s.

I also still think Highborn is good in some match ups in the same way that Show Stopper Johnny Cage is good. When your move hits, life is lovely. When it does not, life sucks. LOL.