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Razors (still) do not function properly.

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I know I made another thread about the razors' lack of functionality almost a year ago, but please hear me out.

I was watching @DarksydeDash (Highborn Kitana) fight Scar (Lotus Fight) very late last night and I noticed that the second hit of the razors would randomly whiff after b+1,4 on a stand-blocking Kung Lao. This whiff causes a flawless-blockable gap that Kung Lao can punish with u+2. Because of the randomness, DarksydeDash began stopping the razors after the first hit, which is always punishable at -9 on block, leading to a guessing game that was in Scar's favor.

Before you post "Who cares? Make the right read, bro.", the whiff seems entirely random after an hour and half of testing and experimenting with various scenarios (i.e., different ranges and block patterns). However, I have discovered that the whiff most frequently occurs against characters who sort of "lean back" while they are stand-blocking (e.g., Kung Lao and Raiden). Against characters who, for lack of a better description, expose their chests or hands while blocking (e.g., Robocop and Shang Tsung), the whiff is less likely to occur but still can.

Some characters can also back dash after blocking the first hit of the razors, but I can only confirm Cetrion and Sheeva as of the publishing of this post. In fact, if you back dash and cancel into a normal or special move at the appropriate time, you can punish Kitana. So if you think Higborn Kitana beats Sheeva 7:3 because of razors, think again.

I was a massive Kitana up player because of razors, yet no more because of these issues. I am disappointed that razors still do not function properly after having allegedly been fixed two or three times in previous hotfixes and patches. I think I will be sticking to V2 Robocop until this problem gets addressed, if it ever legitimately does.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
BTW is there anywhere I can watch this match ?
I am not sure, but I have been thinking about uploading a video on YouTube demonstrating these inconsistencies. The more I test the more I discover. For example, not only can Kung Lao flawless block and punish with u+2, he can also interrupt and punish the third hit of the razors with d+3. I also managed to back dash and whiff punish... sometimes. Sometimes not. Back dashing was inconsistent.

I hope you enjoy Robocop then lol
I think I will still use Highborn in match ups in which razors function properly, similarly to what Johnny Cage players do with Show Stopper. LOL.

But yeah these inconsistencies are inexcusable.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
There's a weird bug vs Erron as well where the third razor just ignores Erron completely and passes through him.

Lao's D3 could even low profile the razors for all we know. It's a miracle I even won a match against him.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Just venturing a guess: could it be because of the DBF input for Far Razors? I barely know a thing about Kitana, but I know the DBF has been a universal pain in the ass for as long as I can remember.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Just venturing a guess: could it be because of the DBF input for Far Razors? I barely know a thing about Kitana, but I know the DBF has been a universal pain in the ass for as long as I can remember.
In terms of Gameplay, I was using db2f.
I was using the same inputs. You can look at them in the two videos above.

The standard razors (i.e., d/b+2) whiff entirely on characters like Kung Lao and Sheeva.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I was using the same inputs. You can look at them in the two videos above.

The standard razors (i.e., d/b+2) whiff entirely on characters like Kung Lao and Sheeva.
Oh goodness.
Yeah, that is super shitty :( .

MK11 had by far the shortest amount of time between announcing its existence and full release, and stuff like this makes it really show. They should've taken the time to fully QA this game and released it at Christmas, or even April this year. But hey, when we live in the age where you can sell an incomplete game, patch up all the holes with DLC, AND double up by putting out the actual finished product with a GOTY label however long after, what can ya do, right?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Oh goodness.
Yeah, that is super shitty :( .

MK11 had by far the shortest amount of time between announcing its existence and full release, and stuff like this makes it really show. They should've taken the time to fully QA this game and released it at Christmas, or even April this year. But hey, when we live in the age where you can sell an incomplete game, patch up all the holes with DLC, AND double up by putting out the actual finished product with a GOTY label however long after, what can ya do, right?
I enjoy and support the game. While different hitboxes for different characters and the concept of low profiling are prevalent in all modern fighting games, lack of basic functionality is virtually nonexistent. Issues like this one and Cage's force balls in Show Stopper should have been resolved six months ago.
 

Juxtapose

Master
I don't even know what this means but reading it gave me a good "wth chuckle"
XCOM: Enemy Unknown is a turn based strategy game. You command the Extraterrestrial Combat Unit, fighting aliens invading Earth. The game is extremely hard, and random number generation factors heavily in the game's combat.

So let's say you're on a mission. One of your soldiers comes into line of site with an alien who's not in cover and has a 99% chance to hit the alien with their shot. You decide to take said shot.

The game then "roles the dice" to see if you succeed or not, and even at 99%, there's still a 1% chance you'll miss, selected at random.

So, you "pray" to the random number generator, "RNG," or as some call it, "RN Jesus" because you're praying for the hit.

XCOM was notorious for not having your prayers answered, and 99% chance shots will indeed miss.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
They should just make the Razors come out on a horizontal axis instead of a vertical one, like Black Adam's Trait. It's the same basic idea; three rotating projectiles that do their own individual damage. If the problem happens to lie in the way that they spin, change the spin.
 

WA-Finest

>>WILL SLIDE IN NEUTRAL<<
Is there any reason to believe this stuff isn't intentional? You'd think stuff like this and hitbox issues would be the easiest fixes to make there's no "too good" there's just it works or it doesn't
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
a bunch of things don't function properly

stop supporting this game if you're a competitor, its a disgrace
It makes one wish they'd do a Kombat Kast addressing the myriad of problems we've all been screaming about for over a year, instead of misleading breakdowns for shoddily made variations or the thousandth upgrade to Towers Of Time or the goddamn title belt fights.

The only other game I've put serious time into that isn't an NRS fighter is Destiny 2. And while they've had their own rreeaall tumultuous ups and downs over the years, Bungie goes out every week and addresses the fanbase. They talk to them. They get feedback and input and speak on the pressing fucked up matters at hand, and not just from the major players who make up their Twitch revenue. And they do this in a game that I imagine is INFINITELY more of a pain in the ass to maintain and balance than MK11. Yet we can't even get straight answers about the same obvious and glaring mechanical BS we've had to deal with since launch.

If you were missing a fucking finger, it wouldn't take you over a year to go "HOLY SHIT, WHERE DID MY FINGER GO?", let alone go get the damn thing tended to.
 

Dogeofthesea

Apprentice
I prayed to RN Jesus all the time in XCOM: Enemy Unknown. 99% chance to hit, I'd still miss :(.
lol I'm playing a XCOM2 - WOTC Ironman campaign and once I missed a 98% flanked shot that was CRUCIAL to that mission. Still salty af today
Back to MK11: i think they can just remove razors complete and redesign this variation using the stance as key features. I'm tired of using a character who has terrible base kit and got carried by one single broken move that loves to play with the RN god.