General/Other - Ravenous Ravenous Variation General Discussion

[1man3letters]

B12-chomp-chomp-chomp

Discuss...

 

[Endding]

Looove this variation, was my starting always love her without her mask. Sadly I switched to Piercing but honestly my love for this variation and this footage helped me fill in a few gaps for me to revisit.

If you unsure on how to pressure, or how this variation really works watching that will really give you an understanding.

 

[Yoaks]

Looove this variation, was my starting always love her without her mask. Sadly I switched to Piercing but honestly my love for this variation and this footage helped me fill in a few gaps for me to revisit.

If you unsure on how to pressure, or how this variation really works watching that will really give you an understanding.

I need to finish watching this! Ravenous is what really got me interested in Mileena. Plus shes more "Tarkatan" like without her mask! #ForBaraka!!!

 

[Endding]

I need to finish watching this! Ravenous is what really got me interested in Mileena. Plus shes more "Tarkatan" like without her mask! #ForBaraka!!!

Haha, exactly! Always loved the tarkatan side to her!

Real shame Bite isn't that useful : (

 

[Yoaks]

Haha, exactly! Always loved the tarkatan side to her!

Real shame Bite isn't that useful : (

I only use it for the Brutality.

 

[1man3letters]

carrying on discussion from the other thread, character punishes for high pounce:

cassie - flip kick
kung lao - spin
jax - 1
radien - F1
liu kang - F1
reptile - ex slide
scorpion - D1
shinnok - D1, ex hellsparks
ermac - D1
kotal - D1, D4
goro- D1, D3
ferra/torr (lackey only) D1

 

[mrSkv]

I would like to show two combo, which I have not seen in the main tread

 

[TheSpore]

Lord Nurgl;e has been very interested in dis variation, problem is I feel any variation outside Piercing restricts Mileena of several of her best tools, it reduces the range of her B12, you lose the B21 2+4 string and the loss of the Low Sai. I guess my question is what can this vari do that will make up for the loss of those things

 

[Ninjaguy446]

Lord Nurgl;e has been very interested in dis variation, problem is I feel any variation outside Piercing restricts Mileena of several of her best tools, it reduces the range of her B12, you lose the B21 2+4 string and the loss of the Low Sai. I guess my question is what can this vari do that will make up for the loss of those things

Here are some points:

• Low pounce can be used as a pseudo overhead for 16%
• High pounce and low pounce can give you greater control of your and your opponents positions
• Tick throws (with low pounce)
• Greater combo damage (by like 1 or 2% IIRC)
• Bomb af brutality
• Sexy teeth

 

[Sami]

I've been experimenting with this variation properly tonight and I'm finally starting to see some of the advantages it has over piercing and it's all down to high pounce.

1) Low pokes safely (mostly!) go from 2-3% damage to 16% damage. If you want to open up your opponent for some damage with a low poke then usually you need to cancel it into roll and hope they didn't block it. With high pounce you cancel it into this and get yourself 16% (full chain) if you hit and -7 if they block.

2) Counter pokes also get the same treatment. If you're using d1 to try and get out of pressure then again d1~grab gives you 16% rather than 2% (and -7 if they block).

3) Doing a really unsafe string? Cancel it into high pounce for -7 on block! Terrible at hit confirming from quick strings? Cancel it into high pounce!

4) Potentially higher damage combos. b12~chomp provides a nice chunk of damage but most of that comes from the chomp. High pounce gives you a high damage ender to most strings and there are plenty that do more damage than b12.


Basically, it lets you make things safe against a lot of the cast and allows you to capitalise on raw pokes. If you decide to try and open someone up with an overhead (either roll or low pounce which works like an OH) then you're still unsafe as well, but going for the low option removes most of the risk you face from being punshed. The rewards are less, but it provides Mileena with some much needed safety in this situations.

Also, hand-stand normals/strings cancelled into pounce just look funny.


Most important of all however is that low pounce connects when the opponent is being juggled so you can troll restand them

 

[ZeroEffect]

Basically, it lets you make things safe against a lot of the cast and allows you to capitalise on raw pokes. If you decide to try and open someone up with an overhead (either roll or low pounce which works like an OH) then you're still unsafe as well, but going for the low option removes most of the risk you face from being punshed. The rewards are less, but it provides Mileena with some much needed safety in this situations.

I think Standing Sai works for this just as well in Piercing. I found out recently that Standing Sai has gotta be at worst -7 on block, (it might be better), as Jacqui can't punish Mileena for blocking it. EX Standing Sai as well, but the 2nd sai can be armored through.

 

[1man3letters]

I think Standing Sai works for this just as well in Piercing. I found out recently that Standing Sai has gotta be at worst -7 on block, (it might be better), as Jacqui can't punish Mileena for blocking it. EX Standing Sai as well, but the 2nd sai can be armored through.

its not -7, whatever about the pushback from 123-sai or max range b12-sai making some normals whiff.
scorpion can 8 frame d4 sai can punish 123 d4 and 9 frame standing 1 if sai is done of a different string, i think the frame data could be right on in game at -10/-11 punishes

 

[ZeroEffect]

its not -7, whatever about the pushback from 123-sai or max range b12-sai making some normals whiff.
scorpion can 8 frame d4 sai can punish 123 d4 and 9 frame standing 1 if sai is done of a different string, i think the frame data could be right on in game at -10/-11 punishes

Then the frames for Jacqui's standing 1 must be wrong. Cause I'm pretty sure I tested it in the corner as well... Dammit, lol. Every time I think something is good it all comes back to incorrect in-game frame data.

 

[JDE]

Im going to start breaking this variation down more & using it. I honestly just wish she had a option to put her ninja mask back on.

 

[Madog32]

These may have been posted, but here are the metered combos i've been using:

MID SCREEN
F343~TK~AS, run~F23~roll, run~MBU3, B22~HPounce Chain = 46% (1 bar)
(can be made easier by doing F2~roll instead of the run~F23~roll for 1% less damage)

CORNER
F343~TK~AS, B22(orF23)~roll, walk a step away from corner, D2, MBU3, B22~HPounce Chain 48% (1 bar, fairly easy to do)
(keeps them in the corner)

Yes they're both F3 starters, but they land now and then. Most of her other BnB's don't really seem to benefit from spending any meter in them. The amount of increased damage tends to be miniscule. I feel the best use of her meter is to be saved for EXrolls, but it seems difficult to really capitalize on damage after an EXroll. They help to mixup your opponent, but after you catch them with it, i'm finding it hard to do more than 30% without spending even more meter. I've recently been playing with EXroll into jK~TK~AS, but for some reason the timing for the AS after the TK is proving to be extremely difficult. I have no problem doing it after a TK starter for a punish, but in a combo after the roll and jK~TK, it just really doesn't like to come out. So maybe that's another dead end...
But if I'm sitting on a bunch of meter, those are the combos I'll use it in for increased damage.

I've also tried to find a decent use for MBU3, but outside of the corner, it doesn't seem to help much. B34~AS or B3~TK~AS seem to be just as good as MBU3, and cost not meter. Anyone have any tricks they're using MBU3 for, or instance where it's really adding damage that couldn't have just been achieved another way meterlessly?

Very fun variation all the same! After playing Kitana since release, its a whole new game having pokes and mixup options! I just miss the air control...

 

[sinosleep]

I love this variation, I find it much easier to land both command grab enders since they can be used in various strings as opposed to either back 12 variant for equal or more damage.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

I apologize for blocking high sais and looking for low ones in this variation. My mind was so conditioned to Piercing. Saltface and I had a good laugh in the car about it.

 

[God'sgift888]

Hi all, i was wondering what we are doing against erron black's? Like i hold my own in many match ups but i can't solve this one. Without ex roll this match uo would be unwinnable in my eyes.

 

[Endding]

Hi all, i was wondering what we are doing against erron black's? Like i hold my own in many match ups but i can't solve this one. Without ex roll this match uo would be unwinnable in my eyes.

Keep away as much as possible, and you nailed it meter management is important. EX Roll for mixups / interuptions and then EX Telekick for his impatience or attempt to counter zone.

Also learning to block his mixups, as obvious as it sounds will help you.

F23 is nice check for range, just got to play patient. I find the MU quite fun, to be honest.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I love this variation. But I love piercong even more... IMO the ONLY thing she need in Ravenous for it to be as good as piercing is piercing's B12 range... Idk who's idea was to take away that range -.- also at first I was doing random fullscreen F3's because I wanted low sai to come out lolol

 

[Endding]

also at first I was doing random fullscreen F3's because I wanted low sai to come out lolol

Hahhaha, same thing happened to me I couldn't figure out why it was happening.

You do lose footsie tools with Ravenous, but I feel it's the more aggressive variation with cancelling strings into High Pounce for -7 or catching opponents blocking low for 16% I really feel this variation is closer to piercing than people think.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Hahhaha, same thing happened to me I couldn't figure out why it was happening.

You do lose footsie tools with Ravenous, but I feel it's the more aggressive variation with cancelling strings into High Pounce for -7 or catching opponents blocking low for 16% I really feel this variation is closer to piercing than people think.

I totally agree, both have very good strenghts, but IMO it wouldn't have her OP or anything special to have her B12 back, footsies are pretty important.

 

[God'sgift888]

Keep away as much as possible, and you nailed it meter management is important. EX Roll for mixups / interuptions and then EX Telekick for his impatience or attempt to counter zone.

Also learning to block his mixups, as obvious as it sounds will help you.

F23 is nice check for range, just got to play patient. I find the MU quite fun, to be honest.

Thanks a lot. One more question, can you punish him after blocking his mixups (didn't seem like it last night)? I know you can find this out in practice mode however online is different.

 

[Sami]

With today's patch making her generic normals a bit quicker I feel Ravenous got closer to Piercing. B12 is still god-like for counter-poking but providing quicker normals across the board helps close the gap a little. Piercing's B12 being mid AND quick still wins the day though.

 

[ZeroEffect]

If you use low pounce with no followups, does she have frame advantage after she hops over?