Match-up Discussion Raven Matchup Discussion

[kabelfritz]

Both, actually, but I'm having more trouble with zoning Superman. I probably shouldn't because Raven is supposedly so amazing as an anti-zoner but I still get beat. I don't know what to do when he's fullscreen and he jump and beams me. df2 doesn't work fullscreen obviously and doesn't work even if he's not fullscreen because he's so high up. I could try going in to demon stance and get hit but then teleport is so expected. Is there something you would suggest? I am probably missing something cause I haven't spent much time in practice mode. I generally just have most of my experience from online play.

against fullscreen zoning go demon stance and df1u, MB even allows a follow up db2

 

[kabelfritz]

Yeah I've been having hard time with Black Adam. They just walk back and spam dive kicks from anywhere on the screen and soul crush doesn't seem to help much in this situation. Is it possible to punish the dive kicks with Raven? lol with me they just dash back or poke me so I've never been able to punish it myself but it might be because of the lag.

as soon as they jump up do a d2, that beats at least a high divekick, not sure about low and MB though. black adam is a terrible matchup though. and yes hes also good up close, he is all safe.

 

[Red Reaper]

as soon as they jump up do a d2, that beats at least a high divekick, not sure about low and MB though. black adam is a terrible matchup though. and yes hes also good up close, he is all safe.

Not just safe. Plus...

 

[kabelfritz]

Not just safe. Plus...

true, but afaik he can get only a d1~something frametrap from it

 

[Red Reaper]

true, but afaik he can get only a d1~something frametrap from it

That's what's uninterruptable. Then if you respect that, he kan start doing his knee or any of his numerous plus strings to keep you in pressure...

Frame advantage means mind game advantage.

 

[kabelfritz]

That's what's uninterruptable. Then if you respect that, he kan start doing his knee or any of his numerous plus strings to keep you in pressure...

Frame advantage means mind game advantage.

you can backdash out though... dunno if he can punish that again or ea up the backdash with advancing moves.

 

[vegeta]

as soon as they jump up do a d2, that beats at least a high divekick, not sure about low and MB though. black adam is a terrible matchup though. and yes hes also good up close, he is all safe.

Wow I just came in hear to discuss Black Adam. Played one offline yesterday and I fell prey to the same thing, just run away, do his lightning and dive kick, was getting pretty frustrating. It's extremely hard to get in on him and he blocked too much inadvertently because he was literally just holding back the whole match. I did use Demon Stance a lot (he had a habit of throwing lighting so I'd just jump and do and and teleport, though after a while he'd just dive kick me out of it on occasion) I'd agree saying it's a tough matchup. Out of desperation I'd wait till I see him in the air and guess when I divekick is coming and use Soul Crush or Singularity as soon as I see him twitch up there and pull him out of his kick, but she usually catches him dangerously close to her an sometimes. Even that though requires strict timing and I'd say it worked maybe half the time since other times his kick seems to "ignore" my attacks hitbox.

 

[vegeta]

I would like to add that MB B3 is also useful vs the divekick but to keep from wasting it I tend to again, watch Black Adam when he jumps and if he does anything other than his "normal" jumping motions I use it.

 

[Boodendorf]

Hey peeps, any EU Raven users on the psn here? She counters my character (Hawkgirl) so I would like to fight a good one to learn the matchup. I'll also be able to record so both parties (hg and raven players) can see how this matchup works.
My psn is Boodendorf.

 

[kabelfritz]

I would like to add that MB B3 is also useful vs the divekick but to keep from wasting it I tend to again, watch Black Adam when he jumps and if he does anything other than his "normal" jumping motions I use it.

maybe go b3 as soon as he jumps then MB on reaction when he divekicks.

 

[vegeta]

maybe go b3 as soon as he jumps then MB on reaction when he divekicks.

Good Idea. Good Idea. Worst that happens is I bait him into making a move and just soul crush to keep him in check. It's a bait in itself.

 

[Villest1]

Biggest advice I can give for comboing Aquaman is to get him off the ground ASAP. You might give up a few % going straight for MB Singularity (only when safe of course!), but the moment he's in the air his trait is useless. For jump-ins, ji3 is the only one that knocks him off his feet so he shouldn't (not tested) be able to trait/block the follow-up hits.

Stupid question: what does ji stand for when you say ji3? Jump in?

 

[Villest1]

ok ive tried like 200 times and lost like 185. black adam is unwinnable and raven is a fish. if you dont think so, show me the black adam you play. turtle black adam is beyond bad.

How are you loosing to a turtle black Adam? If all he's doing is turtleing then he doesn't really have many options.

 

[Sami]

Stupid question: what does ji stand for when you say ji3? Jump in?

yes, jump in

 

[Villest1]

yes, jump in

Ahh thanks for the clarification.

Btw if anyone is still having trouble dealing with DOOMSDAYS SuperNova there is another option other than MeterBurn b3/f3. If you are quick enough you can Forward Dash to avoid it on reaction and punish for a full combo. The timing can be tricky with MB Supernova though because of its tracking property but it is possible to avoid. Make sure to FORWARD dash and not Backdash because backdash doesn't seem quick enough. It's a great alternative tactic when dealing with SuperNova happy Doomsday players. Especially when you don't have the meter for a MB b3/f3.

Pig of The Hut made a great video explaining the forward dash tactic.

!

 

[kabelfritz]

How are you loosing to a turtle black Adam? If all he's doing is turtleing then he doesn't really have many options.

with turtling i dont mean he does nothing, but that hes playing as safe as possible without any risks. he can easily shut down ravens zoning by just walking backwards (also his walk back is almost as fast as her forward dash) and when shes gotta take risks to get in hes got the superior tools and damage.

 

[Nerubian]

I'm having a TON of trouble against the Batman matchup. Good batmans, the ones that actively use their traits effectively and make extremely ambiguous j2 crossups. Raven's invulnerability on wakeup is absolute garbage and her anti-air loses to j2. You can't outzone batman due to his trait, batarrangs and his amazing dash. The start of the round is extremely difficult and it can just be a trainwreck if you guess a few things wrong. God, if you get stuck in the corner against Batman with Raven - I've found nothing.

I don't understand what to do, I can beat crap batmans... but, a good one? Not only is it rough but I get destroyed. I'd love for advice on how to deal with good batmans. I've gotten to the point where I'm contemplating learning a secondary JUST to deal with him. Help?

 

[Blind_Ducky]

MrSoloLobo if superman is trying to zone you just mb reflect.

 

[801 Vegeta]

B23 works great against grundy's walking corpse. It is a great footsie tool against most/all of the cast. If they try to poke after blocking most will wiff. You can then lift, or b2 lift. Once you condition them to not do anything after that, the leads to b2 throw, or another b23.

Against doomsday b3 mb is your friend.

Raven has no comeback factor due b12 range and slow overhead. I have been lamed out quite a few times, even with 30 seconds to go.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

B23 works great against grundy's walking corpse. It is a great footsie tool against most/all of the cast. If they try to poke after blocking most will wiff. You can then lift, or b2 lift. Once you condition them to not do anything after that, the leads to b2 throw, or another b23.

Against doomsday b3 mb is your friend.

Raven has no comeback factor due b12 range and slow overhead. I have been lamed out quite a few times, even with 30 seconds to go.

Ravens sweep makes walking corpse whiff.

Also please don't say Raven has no comeback factor. Was playing a flash yesterday, he had his mic on had a 50% life lead said exactly what you said and I won the match. She can make a comeback.

 

[Owerbart]

Against Deathstroke the important thing to remember is that you can punish his guns, but he can't punish your push. @Blind Man Raven does have a comeback factor but Raven-Flash is an awesome MU for Raven IMO.

Regarding the Batman matchup, I'm convinced that the key is casual zoning while not being afraid of full contact. Batman's d1 is shit and the same way as Sektor had the 6f jab tool, Raven 7f Jab (+1 on block) Really helps her in the mix up game. I'm waiting to see Mr. Mileena mix up ideas to implement them in my game.

 

[Espio]

Just curious what you all think about her match ups versus the following characters: Cyborg and Hawkgirl.

I'm not looking for numbers per se just some thoughts on them.

 

[Owerbart]

Just curious what you all think about her match ups versus the following characters: Cyborg and Hawkgirl.

I'm not looking for numbers per se just some thoughts on them.

After the nerfing of Cyborg's Zoning I'm sure Raven will have easier than someothers, being a counterzoner. If your opponent doesn't do the infinite, reflects and soulcrushes will eventually beat nova blasts and missiles.

Against Hawkgirl, although I have little experience, if HG abuses flight it becomes something like a shooting gallery with Raven's negative masses, along as she stays out of the downward maze stuff.

 

[Villest1]

Ravens sweep makes walking corpse whiff.

Also please don't say Raven has no comeback factor. Was playing a flash yesterday, he had his mic on had a 50% life lead said exactly what you said and I won the match. She can make a comeback.

Idk about really relying on sweep against Grundys Walking Corpse. Maybe I'm just testing it wrong because he still grabs me a lot of times when I try to use d3 to make the grab whiff. Same thing can be said about using b23. At the right distance you can get grabbed out of the b23.

What I find most effective against WALKING CORPSE is using a MB b3. The MB b3 absorbs the grab but you don't take ANY DMG from what I can tell. Hold it just long enough till you see him whiff the grab then let it rip for the wall bounce and continue with a full combo punish.

 

[kabelfritz]

Just curious what you all think about her match ups versus the following characters: Cyborg and Hawkgirl.

I'm not looking for numbers per se just some thoughts on them.

i think there could be no better char against cyborg than raven due to db1. hawkgirl is meh but probably better than for other chars with AApillars and teleport punish for air clubs.