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Rain general discussion

Wigy

There it is...
His sweep has mad pushback and is -4.

Defo potential to sneak into his gameplan and force whiff punishes

F3 is also plus at max range

Might be able to abuse that on oki if you hit them with late frames
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
His sweep has mad pushback and is -4.

Defo potential to sneak into his gameplan and force whiff punishes

F3 is also plus at max range

Might be able to abuse that on oki if you hit them with late frames
If you whiff the B3 of B34 the string becomes +1/0 on block too I think. You can also OS B3~hydro boost on wake ups and cover all the wake-up timings
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
After most strings, a jumping kick will jail after amplified hydro boost when executed properly. The jumping kick may be as low as -6 on block but can never be flawless blocked. Rain is thus able to perform a safe launcher after normal attacks like 1,3, b+2,1, f+2, etc. without any consequences.

A thank you goes out to Lord Brady for bringing this tech to my attention.
 

nodq

wicked
After most strings, a jumping kick will jail after amplified hydro boost when executed properly. The jumping kick may be as low as -6 on block but can never be flawless blocked. Rain is thus able to perform a safe launcher after normal attacks like 1,3, b+2,1, f+2, etc. without any consequences.

A thank you goes out to Lord Brady for bringing this tech to my attention.
And it doesn't work on every character in the roster. NRS style, inconsistent as usual. But it could also be a "bug" and not wanted by NRS, who knows.
 

Slymind

Noob
I bought Rain recently, really fun, and as far as i can see, all his abilities are actually good, some less than others, but there is a lot of experimentation to be done.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
I'd like to discuss what I believe is the optimal loadout

Hydroboost is good but I like the punish ability of Geyserkick.

Something like a Scorpion Spear gets kicked in the face midscreen, and it covers the pushback on fatal blows.

I also want to say that Geyser Palm is easily the most needed move for Rain; lets you convert if they jump, lets you combo off your main punish, does the most damage, and switches sides for a combo ender.

Hydroplane I'm also convinced is one of the best moves you can give him since it lets you just avoid so many gaps entirely, while giving you the ability to hit confirm several good normals such as b3 and f2. One of the best uses is using Hydroplane to avoid the meterburn of Cetrion's wall, therefore shutting that option down entirely, or escaping common strings like Sindel's F21u2. All of that and it has KB mindgames on wakeups, and can be cancelling once they are conditioned.

Finally I think the last move can either be Tidal Wave for the 50/50 off 13, the chip out, and combo damage in the corner or Rift to cover some MUs like SubZero and Sindel.

@M2Dave your thoughts?
 

nodq

wicked
I'd like to discuss what I believe is the optimal loadout

Hydroboost is good but I like the punish ability of Geyserkick.

Something like a Scorpion Spear gets kicked in the face midscreen, and it covers the pushback on fatal blows.

I also want to say that Geyser Palm is easily the most needed move for Rain; lets you convert if they jump, lets you combo off your main punish, does the most damage, and switches sides for a combo ender.

Hydroplane I'm also convinced is one of the best moves you can give him since it lets you just avoid so many gaps entirely, while giving you the ability to hit confirm several good normals such as b3 and f2. One of the best uses is using Hydroplane to avoid the meterburn of Cetrion's wall, therefore shutting that option down entirely, or escaping common strings like Sindel's F21u2. All of that and it has KB mindgames on wakeups, and can be cancelling once they are conditioned.

Finally I think the last move can either be Tidal Wave for the 50/50 off 13, the chip out, and combo damage in the corner or Rift to cover some MUs like SubZero and Sindel.

@M2Dave your thoughts?
Pretty sure you can not equip Hydroplane and Tidal Wave at the same time.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Hydroplane I'm also convinced is one of the best moves you can give him since it lets you just avoid so many gaps entirely, while giving you the ability to hit confirm several good normals such as b3 and f2. One of the best uses is using Hydroplane to avoid the meterburn of Cetrion's wall, therefore shutting that option down entirely, or escaping common strings like Sindel's F21u2. All of that and it has KB mindgames on wakeups, and can be cancelling once they are conditioned.
I am definitely no Rain expert, but I talk to REO, who has been using the character a lot, and he agrees with you about the hydroplane.

He still thinks that the aerial downward slice is Rain's best special move.

He also thinks that the hydroboost is overrated because of its inconsistent hitbox as NoDQ mentioned.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I'd like to discuss what I believe is the optimal loadout

Hydroboost is good but I like the punish ability of Geyserkick.

Something like a Scorpion Spear gets kicked in the face midscreen, and it covers the pushback on fatal blows.

I also want to say that Geyser Palm is easily the most needed move for Rain; lets you convert if they jump, lets you combo off your main punish, does the most damage, and switches sides for a combo ender.

Hydroplane I'm also convinced is one of the best moves you can give him since it lets you just avoid so many gaps entirely, while giving you the ability to hit confirm several good normals such as b3 and f2. One of the best uses is using Hydroplane to avoid the meterburn of Cetrion's wall, therefore shutting that option down entirely, or escaping common strings like Sindel's F21u2. All of that and it has KB mindgames on wakeups, and can be cancelling once they are conditioned.

Finally I think the last move can either be Tidal Wave for the 50/50 off 13, the chip out, and combo damage in the corner or Rift to cover some MUs like SubZero and Sindel.

@M2Dave your thoughts?
13~tidal wave and 134 is a 5f fuzzy so you’re not getting hit by that mixup if you’re good enough.
I’d also like to mention that rift can straight up cancel Cetrion’s rock wall, so I believe that there Is definitely some use to be explored there as well. I do not think there is an “optimal” loadout for this character due to the versatility of him with so many usable moves. I would lean more towards making loadouts that are “general purpose” and “MU-specific/anti-something”. I don’t think NRS would want players to all rush towards the “one best variation” since IMO it defeats the purpose of having a variation system in the first place.
 
After most strings, a jumping kick will jail after amplified hydro boost when executed properly. The jumping kick may be as low as -6 on block but can never be flawless blocked. Rain is thus able to perform a safe launcher after normal attacks like 1,3, b+2,1, f+2, etc. without any consequences.

A thank you goes out to Lord Brady for bringing this tech to my attention.
Does your opponent blocking low not blow this up?? I haven't been able to play much lately but I remember some players were able to punish me like every time i went into dydro boost pressure.
 

Dante

Noob
Idk why ppl like tidal wave tbh. Quantum dive thing is indeed good but needs 2 slots to be used and a 3rd one if you want the KB. Loses a shit ton of options but yeah.

Im torn between having hydroboost vs geyser kick, but whiff punishing scorp spears or punishing FBs isnt the reason. The real reason is the extra dmg hydro gives vs the guaranteed unbreakable dmg geyser gives basically.
 
Wow, rift with water bubble is kinda godlike
How so?

If we are talking about maximizing projectile trades, rift doesn't cut it for most of the cast since it only absorbs one and disappears. Lots of characters can fire more then one shot especially when amplified. This only works against characters who are already bad at zoning and have bad projectiles. Of course the opponent could just always duck the water ball and Rain would have nothing to capitalize on.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
How so?

If we are talking about maximizing projectile trades, rift doesn't cut it for most of the cast since it only absorbs one and disappears. Lots of characters can fire more then one shot especially when amplified. This only works against characters who are already bad at zoning and have bad projectiles. Of course the opponent could just always duck the water ball and Rain would have nothing to capitalize on.
Its great for the life lead because if they don't have a bar/only have one bar they're less likely to spend it.

This loadout definitely shines vs single projecriles though. I was using this loadout vs Kotal Kahn and Sindel and it shut down their neutral pretty hard.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Its great for the life lead because if they don't have a bar/only have one bar they're less likely to spend it.

This loadout definitely shines vs single projecriles though. I was using this loadout vs Kotal Kahn and Sindel and it shut down their neutral pretty hard.
Cassie too, though she has the high shot amp
 
I think Water Ball needs to be a single slot move or change in how it operates. Sub-Zero's amplified ice ball justifies the 2 slot requirements because its that good.

Right now using waterball enforces him to have tidal wave which v3 already covers. Yes there is synergy to use it with geyser palm or hydroboost, but doing so means he gets zone out badly.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
I think Water Ball needs to be a single slot move or change in how it operates. Sub-Zero's amplified ice ball justifies the 2 slot requirements because its that good.

Right now using waterball enforces him to have tidal wave which v3 already covers. Yes there is synergy to use it with geyser palm or hydroboost, but doing so means he gets zone out badly.
Neither the water ball nor the purple rain is worth two slots. The only move that would be worth two slots is the wave dash. LOL.

I still believe that quantum slice, Edenian force, and quantum rift is the best default variation. I would swap the rift for geyser palm or tidal wave for match ups like Geras, Jacqui, and Kotal Kahn, who either lack or do not reply on traditional projectiles. At the moment, hydroboost is not worth choosing until the hitbox inconsistencies are addressed in my opinion.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I still believe that quantum slice, Edenian force, and quantum rift is the best default variation. I would swap the rift for geyser palm or tidal wave for match ups like Geras, Jacqui, and Kotal Kahn, who either lack or do not reply on traditional projectiles
Why would you prefer rift over geyser palm for most MUs? I assume from your post that you're going to be running this load out unless there are very specific MUs where rift does not provide the utility of absorbing single-hitting projectiles? I personally feel that Geyser Palm gives a lot of good utility (good damage off 133, highest damage combo ender and gives the best hit advantage, side switching, Rain's best anti-air) and even though you might lose the KB off Quantum Slice you can make up for getting Geyser Palm conversions, and even without the slice KB I feel Rain still does decent enough damage
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
I assume from your post that you're going to be running this load out unless there are very specific MUs where rift does not provide the utility of absorbing single-hitting projectiles?
Correct.

KB diving quantum slice into fatal blow deals the same damage as the canceled KB f+2,1+3 fatal blow combo. Unbreakable 45% damage, which is a lot better than doing a couple more percentage points with geyser palm.

Rift is a requirement in some match ups. I would not want to play characters like Cetrion, Robocop, or Sheeva without rift. The move also allows you to throw katars without trading projectiles.

But against certain characters, most notably Jacqui and Kung Lao, geyser palm is probably preferable, although you can absorb both Jacqui's grenade launcher and Kung Lao's buzzsaw.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Correct.

KB diving quantum slice into fatal blow deals the same damage as the canceled KB f+2,1+3 fatal blow combo. Unbreakable 45% damage, which is a lot better than doing a couple more percentage points with geyser palm.

Rift is a requirement in some match ups. I would not want to play characters like Cetrion, Robocop, or Sheeva without rift. The move also allows you to throw katars without trading projectiles.

But against certain characters, most notably Jacqui and Kung Lao, geyser palm is probably preferable, although you can absorb both Jacqui's grenade launcher and Kung Lao's buzzsaw.
I was an advocate of this variation early on like yourself but just struggling with it as people learn the matchup i really struggle to open people up and get them scared of staggers without hydroboost and wave.

How are you going about opening people up who are patient. His damage is appalling in that variation sadly and it just seems very hit and run with lots of grabs and zoning for me.

Also for folks saying grounded bf3 is trash, go see how far away you can hit someone jumping.

I regularly use it as a safe oki check to blow up people neutral jumping f2 or just waking up.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Also for folks saying grounded bf3 is trash, go see how far away you can hit someone jumping.

I regularly use it as a safe oki check to blow up people neutral jumping f2 or just waking up.
I'm not going to say it's trash, but I see that the AMP portion of the move will consistently whiff on crouch blocking opponents even at half screen (the sort of distance where you can expect a move like this to be used). I haven't tested this on OKI yet but I assume you're not just throwing this out point blank and I do agree that it catches jumps nicely. I simply wonder why the mid portion of such an attack has such a horrendous angle upwards. Idk if this is intentional or not. Or am I meant to cover that sort of distance with AMP Katar Toss instead?