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Raiden General Discussion

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Fractured_Shadow

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
M2Dave said:
Where do you rank characters like Ashrah, Reiko, and Sindel?
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I think Sindel is the best character in the game. She has an auto shimmy, one of - if not the best - armor break moves in the game. Currently she has the best zoning, amazing synergy with Lao, a pretty easy 50/50 set up, and no real drawbacks. Not to mention she can covert pretty much everything into a restand with scream, which is VERY powerful in and of itself.

A common theme with me is I think the best characters are the ones that are complete on their own, and then have the freedom to highlight their strengths or cover their weaknesses with kameos.

Characters like Sindel, Kenshi, and Raiden have no obvious weaknesses and can adapt to every single playstyle in the game. They can control tempo, runaway, pressure, ect with the best of them. Essentially, there isn't one style that they struggle to play against.

I think Ashrah is one of the more technical characters in the game. Her kit allows her to adapt to almost all playstyles, her damage is bonkers, and she has a flash parry. The ONE weakness I would give her is against zoning and lame out characters but I think her dark stance is an effective counter for it.

I have my top 5 as Sindel, Kenshi, Raiden, Ashrah, and Kang. Outside of Sindel being the clear number 1, I wouldn't be opposed to moving any of these characters higher/lower among the top 5 and really, I think it is a moot discussion because all of them are fantastic and can win against the entire cast.

I think Raiden and Kenshi are easier to be good with than Ashrah, but I think Ashrah has a higher ceiling overall then Raiden. However, funny enough I think Raiden, when being played lame, is one of Ashrah's harder MUs.

As for Reiko, I have a hard time placing him. I don't really have particular trouble playing against him, but he seems to struggle when playing against me when I have a life lead. Nothing about his kit is like omg to me, but he doesn't seem weak either.
 
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Fractured_Shadow

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
wsj515 said:
I'm sure this will cause a blowup, but Raiden, Scorp, Ashrah, Sindel, Nitara (Khameleon), Tanya, Lao, Geras, Johnny, Kitana are all contenders for losing MUs and some of them are pretty polar. You're going to disagree that Raiden is a losing MU, so I'd really like to hear how Kenshi deals with the runaway gameplan.

Kenshi has the best win condition in the game once set in motion, which is why you're correct in saying Cyrax on paper is the best kameo even though there's counterplay to midscreen cyrax/sento summons, but with the current meta of lao/stryker and with some main characters in general he's forced to go sub kameo or even sareena, which even then he can get zoned / out-neutraled by a lot of characters. People also forget that Scorpion kameo gets you out of sento pressure almost for free, and Kenshi will have serious problems in the future when people actually start learning shujinko.

Kenshi's a bit like MK9 cyrax "a net and a dream" in that you can just get robbed by sento and he's never out of a match if he has any resources, but he definitely has some exploitable weaknesses / bad MUs which have lead to so few pros using him in tournaments relative to the other top tiers. Many have echo'd this publicly like Foxy, TM, Tigerz, and more.
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I think Kenshi's kit outside of Sento can deal with more than people give credit to. An example that comes to mind being Demon Drop alone can keep Nitara grounded and there goes most of her setplay. With all this being said, I don't main Kenshi as I am clearly a Raiden main lol.

As to Raiden vs Kenshi, this is somthing I can definitely speak on. As a Raiden main, I want you in Sento stance. Sento makes Kenshi one dimensional and actually VERY easy to run from with Air Superman~Kano Knives, not to mention Raiden takes half chip after taking 60 damage chip.

Where this MU becomes challenging for Raiden is when Kenshi is in base stance and just outside of sweep/d4 distance. This distance is where Raiden struggles the most and it happens to be where Kenshi is his strongest while in base stance.

If anything, this space is where Raiden struggles the most in several MUs, and is why Ashrah can give him fits, because Ashrah owns the game in that space.

What Raiden should be doing Frequently against most opponents is Air Superman over the opponent with hidden Kano Knives to follow. This covers a dash up and will actually reward Raiden with a full combo if they dash into buttons. Kenshi can shut this down with Demon Drop and has other options as well if spaced poorly by Raiden.

I think this MU is 5-5 with clear situations both characters want to be in and have the upper hand in.
 
xRantex

xRantex

Rante Inferno
Welp The Raiden nerf has happened 'facepalm'. I was ok with the other nerfs:
Damage nerf
Storm cell nerf

Now THIS nerf is the one lol. Storm cell can't pull in airborne opponents that nerf is a stiff one.

I mean how many more nerfs does Raiden need?
And could effect tier placement imo.

Also if anyone can help with the Ermac match up. This one Ermac just locked me down with float pressure I felt like it was never my turn.
 
B W1zZ

B W1zZ

Warrior
xRantex said:
Welp The Raiden nerf has happened 'facepalm'. I was ok with the other nerfs:
Damage nerf
Storm cell nerf

Now THIS nerf is the one lol. Storm cell can't pull in airborne opponents that nerf is a stiff one.

I mean how many more nerfs does Raiden need?
And could effect tier placement imo.

Also if anyone can help with the Ermac match up. This one Ermac just locked me down with float pressure I felt like it was never my turn.
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Electromagnetic Storm losing anti-air properties isn't a huge deal to me since there are better anti-air options. Except for it being jump-able now if cancelled from D1 or D3 (D4 still jails).

The added push back from Razzle Dazzle is interesting though, it's a lot safer than it was uncharged and more useful in block/counter-poke pressure and fishing for hit advantage.

I'm not sure why enhanced Razzle Dazzle has a different hit reaction though, unless they just decided he should be closer to the opponent mid screen afterwards for pressure and/or there's some kameo reason for it.

Electric Charge nerf is whatever, it still procs easily enough, but now synergizes with Razzle Dazzle, which adds more depth.

Air-to-air 224 hit reaction changed back during the Cyrax era as well which was barely combo-able, but not to where it was game changing. That change just gave Raiden less combo creativity and kept the opponent closer on wakeup, for more one dimensional Cyrax and Kano pressure.

The Electric Fly nerf isn't a huge deal, he just can't run away with it as easily and most likely Kano-induced like the Electromagnetic Storm nerfs, which I'm not confident they took other teams besides Kano into consideration.

The main thing that bothers me is why the hell does enhanced Teleport still cost 2 bars of meter and why was this never changed? There's no incentive to use it when 1 bar bnbs are more practical and you're spending precious meter that could be better used elsewhere. I think this move needs to be re-worked to give the character more depth and creativity since it's not usually worth going for at such a high cost.
 
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chrisisnice

chrisisnice

I'm a lover, not a fighter
Have they changed the conditions of the storm cell brutality? I used to get it every time I wanted to and now I rarely do!
 
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