General/Other - Raiden Raiden General Discussion

[P3irce]

What I sense from hanging around the forums is that Displacer is generally considered his best variation from Raiden players, but none Raiden players assume Thunder God is his only viable variation. It's kind of weird really. Perhaps with PL using him in tournaments we might start to see more people try him out.

I think he's definitely slept on and has the strongest pressure out of all three.

New here but how would displaced how better pressure? Is it because of constant threat of ex teleport? / is there any footage of displacer?

 

[buyacushun]

Because those are his 2 mid strings...

What about using the +2 from F2 and F22+4? That's why I asked why ask talk about F24. But I just saw @BigMilk post. So I see what you were trying to get at.

@buyacushun I think what echo means is that b11 is completely safe, just like f24. In game shows b11 as -8 or -9 but is incorrect. I also don't think he needs to be able to stagger it, it's completely safe and hit comfortable into meterless 16%

I'd think that too if Raiden compared with the rest of the game in terms of pressure. But right now it seems like everyone does everything better than him besides corner carry. And even that doesn't have some high bar that no one else can reach,

What I sense from hanging around the forums is that Displacer is generally considered his best variation from Raiden players, but none Raiden players assume Thunder God is his only viable variation. It's kind of weird really. Perhaps with PL using him in tournaments we might start to see more people try him out.

I think he's definitely slept on and has the strongest pressure out of all three.

Displacer does seem to be gaining more traction. I don't know anything about TG Raiden besides he can FBRC stuff for confirms and frame traps. Based on Playstyle I think if someone was to play Raiden only they'd have to learn both variations. Cause sometimes meterless pressure could help out where uninhibited but meter dependent movement wouldn't

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

What about using the +2 from F2 and F22+4? That's why I asked why ask talk about F24. But I just saw @BigMilk post. So I see what you were trying to get at.

I'd think that too if Raiden compared with the rest of the game in terms of pressure. But right now it seems like everyone does everything better than him besides corner carry. And even that doesn't have some high bar that no one else can reach,


Displacer does seem to be gaining more traction. I don't know anything about TG Raiden besides he can FBRC stuff for confirms and frame traps. Based on Playstyle I think if someone was to play Raiden only they'd have to learn both variations. Cause sometimes meterless pressure could help out where uninhibited but meter dependent movement wouldn't

What grinds my gears about displacer is auto correct can really screw him over. I.e. opponent mashing d3 even on enhanced tele, and raiden gets poked out of pressure easy.

To my next point, raiden definitely needs f1 to be mid again, since everything that had an issue with his f1 has been fixed... while raiden still feeling the nerf affects.

If f1 cannot be mid, then please just fix his mid hitboxes. One year later almost and raiden mids can still be neutral crouched. He gets poked out of things way too easy.

TG is my secondary and while he can still be used effectively in some MU's he suffers universally from these horrible mids.

 

[buyacushun]

To my next point, raiden definitely needs f1 to be mid again, since everything that had an issue with his f1 has been fixed... while raiden still feeling the nerf affects.

I tried telling people that already. You'll just be met with "It'll make him braindead and too easy." "Raiden is already a good character." "He doesn't need it. If his other mids (F2 and B1) hit better then he'd be fine." "A list of things he can do but no mention how everyone can do it better besides corner carry." All of this with no real reasoning behind it. Just some fear that a 6f mid that went nowhere was destroying people regardless of skill level.

I'm telling you, unless some form of Raiden exists without 50/50s and superman, we won't ever get F1 mid again. Which sucks but I think that could lead to us getting a better character. Like maybe MoS loses mixups and superman but gets better normals and traps that actually works and a 6f F1 mid. But nope, Raiden had safe 50/50 OS and NRS couldn't math right so now he gets hit with the nerf like every patch with like 2 "buffs" and we're supposed to believe he's just fine now.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I tried telling people that already. You'll just be met with "It'll make him braindead and too easy." "Raiden is already a good character." "He doesn't need it. If his other mids (F2 and B1) hit better then he'd be fine." "A list of things he can do but no mention how everyone can do it better besides corner carry." All of this with no real reasoning behind it. Just some fear that a 6f mid that went nowhere was destroying people regardless of skill level.

I'm telling you, unless some form of Raiden exists without 50/50s and superman, we won't ever get F1 mid again. Which sucks but I think that could lead to us getting a better character. Like maybe MoS loses mixups and superman but gets better normals and traps that actually works and a 6f F1 mid. But nope, Raiden had safe 50/50 OS and NRS couldn't math right so now he gets hit with the nerf like every patch with like 2 "buffs" and we're supposed to believe he's just fine now.

If his b11 hitbox was increased, or f2 was maybe 11 startup, I'd be fine.

Problem is b11 whiffs nose to nose on some characters. Definitely whiffs on female hitboxes who are neutral crouched.

F2 is 14 startup, not terrible, but also has the same whiff issues. So what we are forced to do on crouchers is go for b2, or we have to NJP when we think the opponent is going to counter with a string...

People complain about his NJP but seriously that's his best mid right now lool

 

[BigMilk]

Yea I don't think he needs better pressure, I just think he needs a tool to keep your opponent honest and cover his fundamental weaknesses. There practically no reward to any situation even when you win. D1 hits, yet you barely get any pressure, d3 hits and you don't get pressure at all, b11 whiff, counterpoking w 50/50 works but isn't reliable either when compared to other character. This is why I think b11 would fix the same problem as f1 mid. Either would be fine imo. But he definitely needs some tweaks.

 

[BigMilk]

If his b11 hitbox was increased, or f2 was maybe 11 startup, I'd be fine.

Problem is b11 whiffs nose to nose on some characters. Definitely whiffs on female hitboxes who are neutral crouched.

F2 is 14 startup, not terrible, but also has the same whiff issues. So what we are forced to do on crouchers is go for b2, or we have to NJP when we think the opponent is going to counter with a string...

People complain about his NJP but seriously that's his best mid right now lool

I find myself excessively NJPing and ji3 which is sad. I have been working on different ways to approach and have had decent success but he just really needs a solid mid like you said.

 

[BigMilk]

Honestly, I hate myself for being obsessed w making this character work. I have to be dishonest with myself sometimes so I don't thrown in the towel lol

 

[buyacushun]

Honestly, I hate myself for being obsessed w making this character work. I have to be dishonest with myself sometimes so I don't thrown in the towel lol

I highly advise having a secondary or in my case an actual main. I got Kotal and Cassie for when I want to take it serious and actually want to win. Raiden if I'm looking for fun or to make it harder to win which I feel helps me overall. I use Displacer Raiden as a test of my fundamentals but he also helps me take advantage of how MKx plays.

If his b11 hitbox was increased, or f2 was maybe 11 startup, I'd be fine.

Problem is b11 whiffs nose to nose on some characters. Definitely whiffs on female hitboxes who are neutral crouched.

F2 is 14 startup, not terrible, but also has the same whiff issues. So what we are forced to do on crouchers is go for b2, or we have to NJP when we think the opponent is going to counter with a string...

People complain about his NJP but seriously that's his best mid right now lool

Someone came up with the idea of making S2 a mid a while ago. And I think it'd be a cool tool to use. Make it 8f startup and I don't think it becomes too bad and because if it's 10f I don't see how that'd change his current problem right now. Especially if they fix his hitbox issues. From afar we can use F2, F4, D4, Superman. From close we could go for 2 and it's string followups which could also lead to mixups. He'd have 2 for pressure/close range neutral and b1 as an ender. I'd still take mid 2 at 10f though.

 

[BigMilk]

I highly advise having a secondary or in my case an actual main. I got Kotal and Cassie for when I want to take it serious and actually want to win. Raiden if I'm looking for fun or to make it harder to win which I feel helps me overall. I use Displacer Raiden as a test of my fundamentals but he also helps me take advantage of how MKx plays.



Someone came up with the idea of making S2 a mid a while ago. And I think it'd be a cool tool to use. Make it 8f startup and I don't think it becomes too bad and because if it's 10f I don't see how that'd change his current problem right now. Especially if they fix his hitbox issues. From afar we can use F2, F4, D4, Superman. From close we could go for 2 and it's string followups which could also lead to mixups. He'd have 2 for pressure/close range neutral and b1 as an ender. I'd still take mid 2 at 10f though.

Oh believe me, as much as I would love to main this character 100% I'm not that guy lol.

 

[Creature Feature]

I've been practicing Raiden's LRC's for at least six months and it pains me to say it but this character is too hard to execute consistently. I can do them within a combo but it's a 50/50 chance they will come out and on top of that now I have to learn right to left. This character is not for the feint of heart.

 

[rotanadan]

I've been practicing Raiden's LRC's for at least six months and it pains me to say it but this character is too hard to execute consistently. I can do them within a combo but it's a 50/50 chance they will come out and on top of that now I have to learn right to left. This character is not for the feint of heart.

Exactly my issue atm. I came across a raiden in beta that was just godlike at it, and raiden is good when you can do it every time, but for me I drop it WAY to much and end up with like 15% damage. Starting to look at other chars.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Exactly my issue atm. I came across a raiden in beta that was just godlike at it, and raiden is good when you can do it every time, but for me I drop it WAY to much and end up with like 15% damage. Starting to look at other chars.

I'd be happy lab and help you guys with Raiden LRC

 

[rotanadan]

I'd be happy lab and help you guys with Raiden LRC

Is it really worth working that hard to do over 20%. Is Raiden good enough to justify it? Try over and over and over and over to get a 20% combo maybe 50% of the time, or just pick a character that can do damage.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Is it really worth working that hard to do over 20%. Is Raiden good enough to justify it? Try over and over and over and over to get a 20% combo maybe 50% of the time, or just pick a character that can do damage.

Midscreen Raiden combos go anywhere from 22% to 39%. Corner cancel combos go anywhere from 30% to restand and no meter to 48% 1 bar into HKD.

They're worth it to me.

 

[Creature Feature]

Think I'm going to wait for the online to get updated. I've put Raiden on the back burner now and he's a lot more fun now that I'm not taking him seriously.

 

[Black Chapters]

so how would people feel about adding a further placing Spark Trap for Stormlord?

bf4 places a trap around mid-screen, fb4 places one further behind Raiden then db4 does

just a little boost

 

[buyacushun]

so how would people feel about adding a further placing Spark Trap for Stormlord?

bf4 places a trap around mid-screen, fb4 places one further behind Raiden then db4 does

just a little boost

Would do nothing if he still gets punished on block. Still wouldn't be enough to choose him over the other 2. I just don't see why you'd give up what they have for a slightly more oppressive corner game and another way to spend meter.

 

[Black Chapters]

Would do nothing if he still gets punished on block. Still wouldn't be enough to choose him over the other 2. I just don't see why you'd give up what they have for a slightly more oppressive corner game and another way to spend meter.

well you only use meter on a double

I'm just tossing shit at the wall right now

one other issue I have, since the trap only hits once on block, it should only hit once on hit, that unnecessary scaling

 

[TyCarter35]

I really hope Raiden at the very least has an overhead option that isn't as risky as b2 or useless as 34 since one can low profile it

 

[Black Chapters]

is f1 still a high?

 

[DDutchguy]

Would it be useful to learn instant-air superman to punish things from full screen? Maybe it could be good against things like Quan's air skulls.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

anyone know if they changed his front teleport? when i cancel b14 front teleport midscreen, it feels like im farther than before and things are whiffing, wtf?

 

[Shawnzzy]

Would it be useful to learn instant-air superman to punish things from full screen? Maybe it could be good against things like Quan's air skulls.

Honestly I was in the lab working on these last week and they don't seem worth it to me so much. I got to where I could do them 50% of the time, but even then they are match up specific as they don't fly over all projectiles. Most characters that can "zone you out" I feel this doesn't help you beat their zoning so much which makes it seem like a ton of effort for something that I already have better, more consistent options against.

All that being said, I am a huge fan of delayed air superman. Empty jump in and punish their anti-air/whiff with a superman as you are falling to the ground. If the chance doesn't present itself, you land safe and continue to move forward.

 

[DDutchguy]

Honestly I was in the lab working on these last week and they don't seem worth it to me so much. I got to where I could do them 50% of the time, but even then they are match up specific as they don't fly over all projectiles. Most characters that can "zone you out" I feel this doesn't help you beat their zoning so much which makes it seem like a ton of effort for something that I already have better, more consistent options against.

All that being said, I am a huge fan of delayed air superman. Empty jump in and punish their anti-air/whiff with a superman as you are falling to the ground. If the chance doesn't present itself, you land safe and continue to move forward.

I suppose I'll only learn it for the swag points then. Don't have acces to the game at the moment, do you know what the start-up on air superman is (I think 8 frames?) and whether you can EX it?