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Guide Raiden - Frame Data Conclusions

dribirut

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
raiden teleport is sooo punishable plus he has very little mixups to open up his opponents. dont get me wrong he is probably top 10 if not righttt outside of it
 
NKZero

NKZero

Warrior
dribirut said:
raiden teleport is sooo punishable plus he has very little mixups to open up his opponents. dont get me wrong he is probably top 10 if not righttt outside of it
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Dude I'm tired of hearing how punishable his teleport is. You aren't punishing it if he keeps it unpredictable. An unpredictable Raiden is tough to play against because you fear the teleport and that opens up his offensive options. Plus when he has the life lead he is tough as hell to chase down. He's a very good footsies character, has one of the best whiff punishers in the game etc.

I dunno if you've seen UsedForGlue's video on Raiden in the forums but check it out if you haven't. Explains everything perfectly and why Raiden is still great.
 
Wildabeast

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
dribirut said:
Lol that's too easy.
Kabal jax smoke kenshi Sonya Kung Lao cage.. Goddamn that was too easy
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God people are really hoping aboard that Cage train all of the sudden. Anyway, the only characters on that list that are hands down better than Raiden are Kabal and Sonya, everyone else is debatable to flat out no.

Kung Lao is barely top 10 right now, he has to take hella risks and low hit box characters give him a lot of trouble.

Cage is having a resurgence in popularity because zoners have dropped off. Tom Brady's match against Curbo at MLG should show that Cage still struggles hard against any character effective at keeping people out.

Smoke is very similar to Raiden, just not quite as good. He works the same way, he gets his damage through pure mind games and excellent footsies. The difference? If you catch Smoke he gets rushed down hard, whereas Raiden always has a way out.

Everyone else is debatable.
 
dribirut

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Wildabeast said:
God people are really hoping aboard that Cage train all of the sudden. Anyway, the only characters on that list that are hands down better than Raiden are Kabal and Sonya, everyone else is debatable to flat out no.

Kung Lao is barely top 10 right now, he has to take hella risks and low hit box characters give him a lot of trouble.

Cage is having a resurgence in popularity because zoners have dropped off. Tom Brady's match against Curbo at MLG should show that Cage still struggles hard against any character effective at keeping people out.

Smoke is very similar to Raiden, just not quite as good. He works the same way, he gets his damage through pure mind games and excellent footsies. The difference? If you catch Smoke he gets rushed down hard, whereas Raiden always has a way out.

Everyone else is debatable.
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lol any way you put it cage is still one of the best characters in the game.. youre argument that "oh people only think hes good because hes placing very high or winning tournies" is dumb since one, well yea thats a pretty good indications and not even that you can look at the tools he has which just utterly destroy so many characters in the game.. reason cage is so efffective= amazing block dash

and smoke is def better than raiden. better footsies, better mixups, much better damage, and like you said can do everything raiden does and more. best overhead normal in the game.. amazing pokes. .i really dont understand how you cant see that, i guess i am going to get a lot of opposition in the RAIDen forum

and kl is barely? top 10 LOL
 
dribirut

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
again im not saying raiden is a trash character. just not as good as people once thought. still a veeryyyy solid character
 
Wildabeast

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
dribirut said:
lol any way you put it cage is still one of the best characters in the game.. youre argument that "oh people only think hes good because hes placing very high or winning tournies" is dumb since one, well yea thats a pretty good indications and not even that you can look at the tools he has which just utterly destroy so many characters in the game.. reason cage is so efffective= amazing block dash

and smoke is def better than raiden. better footsies, better mixups, much better damage, and like you said can do everything raiden does and more. best overhead normal in the game.. amazing pokes. .i really dont understand how you cant see that, i guess i am going to get a lot of opposition in the RAIDen forum

and kl is barely? top 10 LOL
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Smoke's mixups are mind games same as Raidens. Having the best overhead in the game doesn't mean much when theres no reason to block low against him. He has no low combo starter, given the choice between eating a B23 or D1/D4 I'll take the D1/ D4. B23 is more useful as a whiff punish than as an overhead, same as Raiden's B321. Smoke cannot do everything Raiden does and you know it; Smoke has no armor moves, Raiden has two. When Smoke gets cought he gets rushed down quite hard, Raiden has a way out of every fucked up position you try to put him in.

Thats not why Im saying people are overrating Cage, and for crying out loud Cage is winning tournaments as a counter pick. Who exactly is winning majors primarily on the strength of Cage? Hes the best rush down character in the game yes but he still gets blown up hard by anyone that can effectively keep him out. Thats a huge weakness which keeps him from being top tier material, upper tier sure but definitely not top tier.

Yes Kung Lao is barely top 10 now, and Im not the only one saying that. His mobility is the only thing that keeps him up there, everything else about him has been toned down way too much.
 
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