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Guide Raiden - Frame Data Conclusions

Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Raidenwins said:
Can someone explain exactly what Cancel Advantage is?
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It's the frame advantage you have between that string and any canceled move afterwards. For example, standing 1 has a block advantage of -1. So if I hit them with a standing 1 and don't hit anything else I'll end up at -1. But standing 1 has a +18 cancel advantage on block so if i hit standing 1 and cancel it into lightning, then there will be an 18 frame cancel advantage after the blocked standing 1. Since the lightning has 25 startup frames, there will be 7 frames in between where you can poke out, do an armored move, etc. I got that from subtracting the cancel advantage on block frames from the startup frames of the lightning. This can be kind of confusing and is hard to word. Let me know if that doesn't make any sense at all. Haha.
 
GuamoKun

GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
Zer0Hundr3d said:
since the other guy is also waiting for the tele it's a never ending cycle of "lol u go first, no u go first , lol no u go first , lol its k my pleasure u go first , ladies first , lol u go first"
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CSZ can parry in between b312 and the 334

Dive kick makes Raiden be more careful about the teleport.

When applying this to the "u go first" style....

It makes it quite easier right?

lolol but what you say definately is true. This data is so useful!
 
Theme

Theme

Noob
Raiden doesnt have a good offence? I beg to differ. I agree with NKZero. If your busy thinking about the teleport, you cannot anticipate the countless other things Raiden can do, such as Superman, Lightening bolts, VB (for continuous meter building), or a jump in. Sure, if your fast enough, you can anticipate all those things, but you WILL make a mistake and guess wrong, and there goes 40% and ending with superman, your now in the corner, good luck getting out of it against a good Raiden.

I invite anyone on the PS3 to play my friend's Raiden. He has the best use of offense and defense. Hes fast and has good mixups. Raiden's pokes are one of his strong points as well, if you havent noticed his d1 or d3? You cannot interrupt Raiden's strings either, without risking 40% if you mess up. I love it how everyone keeps talking about 'how easy it is to interrupt Raiden's strings' but I never see it done. Why would you risk interrupting the string when if you mess up, you'll get punished HARD? Even 16bit said himself that whoever thinks it's 'easy' is stupid.

Raiden's teleport IMO is the cheapest move in the game. Sure, its his playstyle, whatever, but because of it, he has almsot no matchup. That move can be used anytime and for any situation, defense, offense, counter-offense, or to just run away and play tag. He has no bad matchups... period.

Edit: Im not saying teleport isn't punishable, its definitely possible (watch 16bit Kitana vs PL Raiden), but what Im saying is that coupled with many other factors during a match, if you have a good Raiden, he wont be teleporting on routine. You better be expecting something new up his sleeves.
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Updated: Added advantage after linked teleport on block and on hit into the main chart. Moved things around a bit. Updated some of his main string info which I had wrong.
 
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Get on that hook
Theme said:
Raiden doesnt have a good offence? I beg to differ. I agree with NKZero. If your busy thinking about the teleport, you cannot anticipate the countless other things Raiden can do, such as Superman, Lightening bolts, VB (for continuous meter building), or a jump in. Sure, if your fast enough, you can anticipate all those things, but you WILL make a mistake and guess wrong, and there goes 40% and ending with superman, your now in the corner, good luck getting out of it against a good Raiden.

I invite anyone on the PS3 to play my friend's Raiden. He has the best use of offense and defense. Hes fast and has good mixups. Raiden's pokes are one of his strong points as well, if you havent noticed his d1 or d3? You cannot interrupt Raiden's strings either, without risking 40% if you mess up. I love it how everyone keeps talking about 'how easy it is to interrupt Raiden's strings' but I never see it done. Why would you risk interrupting the string when if you mess up, you'll get punished HARD? Even 16bit said himself that whoever thinks it's 'easy' is stupid.

Raiden's teleport IMO is the cheapest move in the game. Sure, its his playstyle, whatever, but because of it, he has almsot no matchup. That move can be used anytime and for any situation, defense, offense, counter-offense, or to just run away and play tag. He has no bad matchups... period.

Edit: Im not saying teleport isn't punishable, its definitely possible (watch 16bit Kitana vs PL Raiden), but what Im saying is that coupled with many other factors during a match, if you have a good Raiden, he wont be teleporting on routine. You better be expecting something new up his sleeves.
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I interrupt 334 on the LAGGIEST connections online.And Offline? LOL Don't even bother if I play Kung Lao.
 
Theme

Theme

Noob
Zer0Hundr3d said:
I interrupt 334 on the LAGGIEST connections online.And Offline? LOL Don't even bother if I play Kung Lao.
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Nice! Did you know, I can actually punish Kung Lao's 2,1 ? Yeah, I do it consistantly online EVERY TIME even in the LAGGIEST OF CONNECTIONS. Offline? If I played Johnny Cage, man, dont even bother, I can punish 2,1 for at least 52% every time.
 
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Theme said:
Nice! Did you know, I can actually punish Kung Lao's 2,1 ? Yeah, I do it consistantly online EVERY TIME even in the LAGGIEST OF CONNECTIONS. Offline? If I played Johnny Cage, man, dont even bother, I can punish 2,1 for at least 52% every time.
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You said you barely so anyone punish 334.So I don't know who you watch.
 
Theme

Theme

Noob
Zer0Hundr3d said:
You said you barely so anyone punish 334.So I don't know who you watch.
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I dont even... What?

I never see anyone punish 334. Osu bit himself said whoever says they punish that easily and consistently is stupid. And Im supposed to believe you can punish it online in the "LAGGIEST" case scenario? Show me a video of someone punishing 334 online, Im not even asking you in the "laggiest case scenario". Just show me something before you open your mouth and spill how great you are.

Edit:
Obviously Im not talking about a parry punish like CSZ because thats 0 frames... and even then I doubt you can punish it easily EVERYTIME ON THE LAGGIEST SERVER
 
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Theme said:
I dont even... What?

I never see anyone punish 334. Osu bit himself said whoever says they punish that easily and consistently is stupid. And Im supposed to believe you can punish it online in the "LAGGIEST" case scenario? Show me a video of someone punishing 334 online, Im not even asking you in the "laggiest case scenario". Just show me something before you open your mouth and spill how great you are.

Edit:
Obviously Im not talking about a parry punish like CSZ because thats 0 frames... and even then I doubt you can punish it easily EVERYTIME ON THE LAGGIEST SERVER
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Dude if you can't react to a slow ass Raiden 33 then I don't see how you're playing this game.
 
Theme

Theme

Noob
Zer0Hundr3d said:
Dude if you can't react to a slow ass Raiden 33 then I don't see how you're playing this game.
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I have yet to see you back up your talk. Typical smartass response... OH IF U CANT DO WHAT I DO, THEN I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY YOU PLAYING THIS GAME. How about you show me up instead? I never said its impossible to interrupt. Its too risky, poking to interrupt but eating a 40% combo instead because you mistimed it. Until you provide proof of someone interrupting 3,3,4 consistantly, stop talking out of your ass. Ill make the challenge easier for you, it doesnt have to be online, offline pro gameplay works too. Put up or shut up.
 
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Theme said:
I have yet to see you back up your talk. Typical smartass response... OH IF U CANT DO WHAT I DO, THEN I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY YOU PLAYING THIS GAME. How about you show me up instead? I never said its impossible to interrupt. Its too risky, poking to interrupt but eating a 40% combo instead because you mistimed it. Until you provide proof of someone interrupting 3,3,4 consistantly, stop talking out of your ass. Ill make the challenge easier for you, it doesnt have to be online, offline pro gameplay works too. Put up or shut up.
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K.
 
Wildabeast

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
Theme said:
I have yet to see you back up your talk. Typical smartass response... OH IF U CANT DO WHAT I DO, THEN I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY YOU PLAYING THIS GAME. How about you show me up instead? I never said its impossible to interrupt. Its too risky, poking to interrupt but eating a 40% combo instead because you mistimed it. Until you provide proof of someone interrupting 3,3,4 consistantly, stop talking out of your ass. Ill make the challenge easier for you, it doesnt have to be online, offline pro gameplay works too. Put up or shut up.
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I forget which tournament it was, but Im pretty sure I saw REO do it twice in the same match. No video but it might have even been against B W1Zz. Saying its easy is exaggerating quite a bit though, Pig of the Hut couldn't even do it every time in that video he put up about blowing up Raiden.
 
B W1zZ

B W1zZ

Noob
Interrupting Raidens strings is not really much different than interrupting other characters that have gaps in their strings, although the window tends to be smaller on other characters.

Wildabeast said:
I forget which tournament it was, but Im pretty sure I saw REO do it twice in the same match. No video but it might have even been against B W1Zz. Saying its easy is exaggerating quite a bit though, Pig of the Hut couldn't even do it every time in that video he put up about blowing up Raiden.
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It had to have been Devastation since that's the only time I've played REO in tournament. I do recall him interrupting with en nomad dash.

But yeah the most consistent way of interrupting is using an armored move...if your playing a character like Kung Lao and mistime a spin interrupt you're going to get blown up for it.
 
NKZero

NKZero

Noob
dribirut said:
i lol veeerryyy hard at who ever thinks raiden is number one in the game.. not even top 7 anymore
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What?! He isn't top 7? That's more laughable than saying he is number 1....Name me seven characters better than Raiden please.

I'll name who I think is better.....Kabal. That's it in my opinion.
 
dribirut

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
NKZero said:
What?! He isn't top 7? That's more laughable than saying he is number 1....Name me seven characters better than Raiden please.

I'll name who I think is better.....Kabal. That's it in my opinion.
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Lol that's too easy.
Kabal jax smoke kenshi Sonya Kung Lao cage.. Goddamn that was too easy
 
NKZero

NKZero

Noob
dribirut said:
Lol that's too easy.
Kabal jax smoke kenshi Sonya Kung Lao cage.. Goddamn that was too easy
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I'll yes and no in order of the characters...

Yes, No, No, Debatable, Debatable, No, No. That was even easier.

Ok how bout you tell me why Raiden is so bad then?
 
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