Guide Raiden - Frame Data Conclusions

[Chaosphere]

First of all, big credit to Somberness. I used his frame data to draw these conclusions.

This is a rough draft of a chart I made to show all of the frame gaps in Raiden's combo strings. ALL of his combo strings. I wanted to make these charts to see what strings are punishable, and what I can do to punish them. Some strings have large gaps. Some strings have gaps of only 1 or 2 frames. Unfortunately you have to know your own character's frame data to find out what you can punish with, but I plan on making these charts for as many characters as I can.

I want to point out though that just because something has a certain amount of frames in a gap, that doesn't necessarily mean that only moves of that amount of frames or less will win. Moves like mileena's d4 can throw things off due to having such a low hitbox, but this is a rare case.

Like I said earlier, this is a rough draft. If there's any erroneous information or anything that looks like a typo, let me know. If you have any suggestions to make this easier to read, I'm open. If you have any questions let me know.

 

[Chaosphere]

I'm working on updating this file as some of it I found out is inaccurate. I already know what's wrong and a lot of changes have to be made. I'll upload this as an image so nobody has to download anything tomorrow.

 

[Theme]

Awesome, just the character I hate fighting the most. My friend plays probably the best Raiden I have ever encountered or seen (I honestly think that his Raiden could go toe to toe with PL... dont flame me). His pokes, teleport, and mind games in general are ridiculously hard to beat. Playing a Raiden that knows what hes doing is so god damn frustrating. He FORCES you to play his mind games, and theres nothing you can do about it. This might just be what I need, even though I already know him inside and out practically.

 

[Chaosphere]

Updated with accurate information.

 

[Gruntypants]

Wow this is really nice! This will definitely help me with my Raiden game! Now if only someone would do this for Jax >_>

 

[BT-joe]

good list bro. i to am a raiden player kinda knew where he stood already but on paper not bad.

 

[Chaosphere]

Wow this is really nice! This will definitely help me with my Raiden game! Now if only someone would do this for Jax >_>

I'll most definitely be doing it for Jax once Somberness gathers all of the cancel advantage on block data =P

 

[Roko1985]

I'll most definitely be doing it for Jax once Somberness gathers all of the cancel advantage on block data =P

You guys are huge help to the MK comunity. Realy realy good job. Keep doing it man.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

1212 -13 on block? LMFAO

Every new thing I discover with Raiden makes me LOL @ the fact that people think 1f teleport saves all his dumb normals.He's defo good, but not #1

 

[NKZero]

1212 -13 on block? LMFAO

Every new thing I discover with Raiden makes me LOL @ the fact that people think 1f teleport saves all his dumb normals.He's defo good, but not #1

The teleport doesn't only save him, it makes him the best in the game. When you play a Raiden, you have to adapt to him not vice-versa. His teleport will affect the way you play and it will stick in your mind. If you punish a teleport it's because your sitting there waiting for it to happen and you're not playing your game to the fullest potential. This allows Raiden to do whatever he wants while your waiting for that one move. He cannot be zoned, you cannot throw out random shit at him because he will punish (ranging from a superman which corner carries to a 35-40% combo). Yes he isn't great at zoning or even rushing down but he is the best at escaping pressure, one of the best at punishing (especially on whiff), and certainly has a lot of mind games going for him. Raiden has maybe one bad match-up in CSZ and that's it. If a top Raiden plays a top representative of any other character, he is extremely tough to beat.

 

[Theme]

I agree totally. I think Kung Lao will give him a run for his money, but even, so its always an uphill battle for KL... at least for me, since I main him against my friends Raiden.

People keep telling me you can punish the teleport, but its just so fast, he can crossup or poke or just block right after. I cannot do anything to him. I usually just sit there and try to punish it but he will just do whatever else he wants. Its so hard to adapt to playing him, because he can do WHATEVER he wants and its not punishable. 1212 has pushback, btw.... and if linked into electric, your gonna get combo'd. His lightening makes his strings safe, thats what I hate the most.

 

[Chaosphere]

1212 -13 on block? LMFAO

Every new thing I discover with Raiden makes me LOL @ the fact that people think 1f teleport saves all his dumb normals.He's defo good, but not #1

Linking a teleport after 1212 makes the string safe on block.

 

[STB Bodam]

1212 -13 on block? LMFAO

Every new thing I discover with Raiden makes me LOL @ the fact that people think 1f teleport saves all his dumb normals.He's defo good, but not #1

I second this...that is all.

 

[NKZero]

His lightening makes his strings safe, thats what I hate the most.

You talking about the vicinity blast? Yes that is safe but can be whiff punished since it will miss even stand blocking low hit-box characters. Unless you're talking about something else then my bad lol...

 

[Theme]

No thats exactly what Im talking about. Im going to try and uppercut him from now on and see how that goes lol.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Linking a teleport after 1212 makes the string safe on block.

Yea that's what I usually do.

The teleport doesn't only save him, it makes him the best in the game. When you play a Raiden, you have to adapt to him not vice-versa. His teleport will affect the way you play and it will stick in your mind. If you punish a teleport it's because your sitting there waiting for it to happen and you're not playing your game to the fullest potential. This allows Raiden to do whatever he wants while your waiting for that one move. He cannot be zoned, you cannot throw out random shit at him because he will punish (ranging from a superman which corner carries to a 35-40% combo). Yes he isn't great at zoning or even rushing down but he is the best at escaping pressure, one of the best at punishing (especially on whiff), and certainly has a lot of mind games going for him. Raiden has maybe one bad match-up in CSZ and that's it. If a top Raiden plays a top representative of any other character, he is extremely tough to beat.

No, Raiden isn't free to do what he wants.Because that's the whole point of his game, to wait for the other guy to move so he could tele and punish.And since the other guy is also waiting for the tele it's a never ending cycle of "lol u go first, no u go first , lol no u go first , lol its k my pleasure u go first , ladies first , lol u go first"

 

[NKZero]

Yea that's what I usually do.



No, Raiden isn't free to do what he wants.Because that's the whole point of his game, to wait for the other guy to move so he could tele and punish.And since the other guy is also waiting for the tele it's a never ending cycle of "lol u go first, no u go first , lol no u go first , lol its k my pleasure u go first , ladies first , lol u go first"

What is stopping Raiden from getting a free jump-in if the opponent is just gonna sit there and wait for a teleport? Also Raiden can empty punch, force the opponent to whiff something, teleport immediately and at least get a superman. You cannot out turtle Raiden. You will make the first move and if not, you are just inviting pressure....

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

What is stopping Raiden from getting a free jump-in if the opponent is just gonna sit there and wait for a teleport? Also Raiden can empty punch, force the opponent to whiff something, teleport immediately and at least get a superman. You cannot out turtle Raiden. You will make the first move and if not, you are just inviting pressure....

But Raiden CAN'T pressure.As for the free jump-in , uhm..AA? lol.and the opponent can empty punch as much as Raiden if not better due to Raiden's normals sucking...and we're back in the beginning. "u go first , no u go first , lol no u go first"

 

[NKZero]

But Raiden CAN'T pressure.As for the free jump-in , uhm..AA? lol.and the opponent can empty punch as much as Raiden if not better due to Raiden's normals sucking...and we're back in the beginning. "u go first , no u go first , lol no u go first"

If you wait for a teleport, there's no way you are anti-airing his jump in unless you're a jedi or you happen to be mashing D1 or whatever. Also Raiden only needs the life lead. I didn't mean pressure. Let's just say one block string e.g. F24 what is that like 3/4% chip damage. That's it. You now have to chase him. Mistakes are made and Raiden WILL punish. I see what you're trying to say but Raiden is designed to be a much better 'chess player' than any other character in the cast. I wish we could play it out or something but I'm abroad atm and will be for a while.....I don't play Raiden but I know some of his game and I know patience

 

[NKZero]

Oh forget it! You play on that shitty console anyways

 

[Vulcan Hades]

If you wait for a teleport, there's no way you are anti-airing his jump in unless you're a jedi

lol so we have to be a Jedi now to anti-air people?

I guess I'm a Jedi then.

 

[NKZero]

lol so we have to be a Jedi now to anti-air people?

I guess I'm a Jedi then.

Wow that is not what I said. I said if you're busy sitting around expecting a teleport, then you won't be thinking about me jumping in. The only way you are punishing that teleport is by luck or by actually waiting for it and reacting quickly enough to punish. In the flow of the game, a good Raiden player will keep his teleporting unpredictable. Also he will most probably use it when you are about to start your offense. It's more of a counter move than anything else.

Point is, you cannot just sit there like a dog waiting for that teleport and then say oh look here's Raiden let me anti-air him with my jedi reactions. You sound like fucking Yoda or some shit .

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Oh forget it! You play on that shitty console anyways

I play Raiden.I know what I`m talking about.I know how good the teleport is and I know how it is used but it doesn't make him best in the game.

Also, by shitty console do you mean the console that doesn't have banned characters , banned stages and doesn't drop frames thus making it the superior console in tournament play? If so, then yes, it's a VERY shitty console.

 

[NKZero]

I play Raiden.I know what I`m talking about.I know how good the teleport is and I know how it is used but it doesn't make him best in the game.

Also, by shitty console do you mean the console that doesn't have banned characters , banned stages and doesn't drop frames thus making it the superior console in tournament play? If so, then yes, it's a VERY shitty console.

We are clearly never gonna reach an agreement so lets leave it at that. Perhaps someone else will share their opinion on this as well.

Well we got an extra character and stage nonetheless while you didn't, forget tourney play. Also the x-box controller is THE worst thing for a fighting game.....but seriously I don't wanna debate PS3 vs X Box especially in this thread, I was just taking the piss

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

We are clearly never gonna reach an agreement so lets leave it at that. Perhaps someone else will share their opinion on this as well.

Well we got an extra character and stage nonetheless while you didn't, forget tourney play. Also the x-box controller is THE worst thing for a fighting game.....but seriously I don't wanna debate PS3 vs X Box especially in this thread, I was just taking the piss

I'm not one to do a console war either, I mean what year is it? 2007? But talking about controllers, the PS3 Pad isn't appreciated either due to the R2 and L2 buttons being so damn shitty.I'll always stick to my PS1 pad with Xtokki360s and possibly getting InPins in the future but I don't play on PS3 so atm I don't really care.