Tech - Kenjutsu Putting the DF1 ender to use

[Nexallus]

I've been playing Kenjutsu a lot recently and I've been having a lot of fun with the variation recently. When I found this thread by @Lokheit talking about using DF1 as a combo ender, I decided to look more in depth to it, and I just wanted to share what I found with whoever else uses this variation.

Just as the last thread that talked about this subject explained, the Hit Adv of DF1 can allow for a free follow-up after any combo, however I haven't seen many people talk about what specifically to do after the DF1 knockdown ender. I decided to lab some more using my basic Ronin Hard Knockdown follow-up as a sort of Lab Guide and it looks like it could really help people who don't know what to do after a combo.

After every DF1 Knockdown, I've found that you can Run Cancel and use D3 to check the opponent for a Delayed Wake-Up and then follow-up using one of Kenshi's pressure strings.

I like to use the 4,4,1 string because it is plus on block with extremely low recovery and it seems like I am able to either use D1 or B3 immediately afterwards. I can also just cancel into DF1 if the opponent is expecting B3, and if I get a hit in, I can just repeat the process again. I can also just finish the string and I think this whole setup is a neat way to trick your opponent into making a mistake.

I have also seen some Kenjutsu players forget to use 2,1,1,2+4 as a Punisher rather than 1,1,1 DB1, and I can openly admit I make this mistake sometimes as well haha.

What do you think about this as a possible setup?

@Immortal @Pig Of The Hut
I don't know very many other Kenshi players.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I've been playing Kenjutsu a lot recently and I've been having a lot of fun with the variation recently. When I found this thread by @Lokheit talking about using DF1 as a combo ender, I decided to look more in depth to it, and I just wanted to share what I found with whoever else uses this variation.

Just as the last thread that talked about this subject explained, the Hit Adv of DF1 can allow for a free follow-up after any combo, however I haven't seen many people talk about what specifically to do after the DF1 knockdown ender. I decided to lab some more using my basic Ronin Hard Knockdown follow-up as a sort of Lab Guide and it looks like it could really help people who don't know what to do after a combo.

After every DF1 Knockdown, I've found that you can Run Cancel and use D3 to check the opponent for a Delayed Wake-Up and then follow-up using one of Kenshi's pressure strings.

I like to use the 4,4,1 string because it is plus on block with extremely low recovery and it seems like I am able to either use D1 or B3 immediately afterwards. I can also just cancel into DF1 if the opponent is expecting B3, and if I get a hit in, I can just repeat the process again. I can also just finish the string and I think this whole setup is a neat way to trick your opponent into making a mistake.

I have also seen some Kenjutsu players forget to use 2,1,1,2+4 as a Punisher rather than 1,1,1 DB1, and I can openly admit I make this mistake sometimes as well haha.

What do you think about this as a possible setup?

@Immortal @Pig Of The Hut
I don't know very many other Kenshi players.

I'll look into it w real matches and see how it works

I will say I don't like 441 only because there's a gap.

I do agree 211 should be used as a punisher more but I'm so turned off by 2 I never think of using it because of the awful range . I do however use 2112+4 in my 1 bar 42% BNB now off b3

What's the hit adv difference between df1 db4 bf3? I need to play w it myself but I'm not sure you're getting any significant adv off df1 ender unless it helps time b1 to break armor wake ups, or perfectly spaces to where f2/b3 both can hit.

Ending w db4 sets ho perfect spacing for max range f2 and df1 to make safe at that range against most

Bf3 is obviously the higher damaging ender and side switcher

 

[Kickbykick]

I will say I don't like 441 only because there's a gap.

I was gonna tell you something I think might be cool about 441 once I find you because am aware that you don't like that string.

441 is +2 with a gap (not up to a 6 frame gap as I remember, so no reversal beats it without armor).
44 is "-14" so no baiting or staggering.
4d4 : ) though has no gap and is safe, the thing is that 4d4 has the exact animation as 44(I think). So my idea is you want to bait an armor or stagger, you use 4d4 but if you wanna get your plus frames you do 441. Could make some good interesting mind game, which has helped me.

Just my idea : ).

 

[Jack Burton]

I was gonna tell you something I think might be cool about 441 once I find you because am aware that you don't like that string.

441 is +2 with a gap (not up to a 6 frame gap as I remember, so no reversal beats it without armor).
44 is "-14" so no baiting or staggering.
4d4 : ) though has no gap and is safe, the thing is that 4d4 has the exact animation as 44(I think). So my idea is you want to bait an armor or stagger, you use 4d4 but if you wanna get your plus frames you do 441. Could make some good interesting mind game, which has helped me.

Just my idea : ).

That's exactly what I use that string for. Also, Quan Chi and Predator can't armor through the gap in 4421 because their armor is too slow, so I tend to pressure and stagger them with 4421 and 4D4. I tend to use 4421 as a meaty string on someone's wake up after a splat or hard knockdown (especially if I knock down the opponent in the corner) because the entire sting covers their wake up if they choose to do a delayed wake up or I can stop the string any time and go for mixups like tick throws after a blocked 2.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I'll look into it w real matches and see how it works

I will say I don't like 441 only because there's a gap.

I do agree 211 should be used as a punisher more but I'm so turned off by 2 I never think of using it because of the awful range . I do however use 2112+4 in my 1 bar 42% BNB now off b3

What's the hit adv difference between df1 db4 bf3? I need to play w it myself but I'm not sure you're getting any significant adv off df1 ender unless it helps time b1 to break armor wake ups, or perfectly spaces to where f2/b3 both can hit.

Ending w db4 sets ho perfect spacing for max range f2 and df1 to make safe at that range against most

Bf3 is obviously the higher damaging ender and side switcher

Inputs for that 42%?

 

[Immortal]

I've been playing Kenjutsu a lot recently and I've been having a lot of fun with the variation recently. When I found this thread by @Lokheit talking about using DF1 as a combo ender, I decided to look more in depth to it, and I just wanted to share what I found with whoever else uses this variation.

Just as the last thread that talked about this subject explained, the Hit Adv of DF1 can allow for a free follow-up after any combo, however I haven't seen many people talk about what specifically to do after the DF1 knockdown ender. I decided to lab some more using my basic Ronin Hard Knockdown follow-up as a sort of Lab Guide and it looks like it could really help people who don't know what to do after a combo.

After every DF1 Knockdown, I've found that you can Run Cancel and use D3 to check the opponent for a Delayed Wake-Up and then follow-up using one of Kenshi's pressure strings.

I like to use the 4,4,1 string because it is plus on block with extremely low recovery and it seems like I am able to either use D1 or B3 immediately afterwards. I can also just cancel into DF1 if the opponent is expecting B3, and if I get a hit in, I can just repeat the process again. I can also just finish the string and I think this whole setup is a neat way to trick your opponent into making a mistake.

I have also seen some Kenjutsu players forget to use 2,1,1,2+4 as a Punisher rather than 1,1,1 DB1, and I can openly admit I make this mistake sometimes as well haha.

What do you think about this as a possible setup?

@Immortal @Pig Of The Hut
I don't know very many other Kenshi players.

I also usually avoid using 4,4,1 coz of gap. As a general rule i avoid using strings with gaps, coz sooner or later it will bite you in the ass. I've switched for almost exclusive punishing anything with 2,1.... it's great for that purpose.

As for DF1 ender its decent, gives you some room for poke checks / pressure but on the other hand it offers no adv over DB4 ender which is a go-to Kenjutsu ender coz like Pig already mentioned - it gives you a perfect range for DF1 and F2 follow up.

Imo Kenshi players should use parry more, especially on go-to strings which are quite obvious for many characters now. Kenshi has no backdash (the one he has is abysmal), parry can help with that. Of course i don't recommend abusing it nor using it as a go-to tool but its pretty good when youre fairly certain that string X will come now.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Inputs for that 42%?

B32 ex db4 ji2 2112+4 s1 43 bf3

 

[Lokheit]

I'll look into it w real matches and see how it works

I will say I don't like 441 only because there's a gap.

I do agree 211 should be used as a punisher more but I'm so turned off by 2 I never think of using it because of the awful range . I do however use 2112+4 in my 1 bar 42% BNB now off b3

What's the hit adv difference between df1 db4 bf3? I need to play w it myself but I'm not sure you're getting any significant adv off df1 ender unless it helps time b1 to break armor wake ups, or perfectly spaces to where f2/b3 both can hit.

Ending w db4 sets ho perfect spacing for max range f2 and df1 to make safe at that range against most

Bf3 is obviously the higher damaging ender and side switcher

I started experimenting with DF1 because of the combination of advantage, being a HKD and ending with the opponent at the perfect distance for your tools. It always annoyed me how BF3 leaves them too far to check with a push withouth losing advantage with a run and still close enough to eat a full combo if you whiff a new BF3 (and DB4 advantage downright sucks).

The idea came mostly from my experience with Cryo that always ends in high advantage HKDs. DF1 isn't as good as Cryo's Hammer but the advantge is good, you get a free push or B1 check and momentum feels more fluid. You lose 2-3% damage in most combos but I'm enjoying it.

If they don't have meter it guarantees the JIP and you can armor break with a B1 check too.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I started experimenting with DF1 because of the combination of advantage, being a HKD and ending with the opponent at the perfect distance for your tools. It always annoyed me how BF3 leaves them too far to check with a push withouth losing advantage with a run and still close enough to eat a full combo if you whiff a new BF3 (and DB4 advantage downright sucks).

The idea came mostly from my experience with Cryo that always ends in high advantage HKDs. DF1 isn't as good as Cryo's Hammer but the advantge is good, you get a free push or B1 check and momentum feels more fluid. You lose 2-3% damage in most combos but I'm enjoying it.

If they don't have meter it guarantees the JIP and you can armor break with a B1 check too.

Ok I'll give it a decent try

 

[Nexallus]

Yeah I tested the 4,4,1 string and it is god awful loaded with gaps, and I can't help to understand why. I guess It's a good string to use when the opponent has no meter, but otherwise I would rather use 4,2,1 instead. I still think that running up and using D3 is a good way to check for a Delayed Wake-Up after DF1 though. I guess you can also stagger with 2,1,1. I've also found that DF1 has a deceptive amount of range.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Max range bladenado is safe so if your opponent tries to punish, you can armor.

 

[thlityoursloat]

DF1 ender also sets up a b1 armor break, it's a tight window though, the first hit has to connect meaty.
I've tested it against 15f wakeups and it worked consistently.

E: Didn't read the OP thoroughly, phuck lol. I'll test it against more wakeups soon.

 

[Kandarr]

Still experimenting, but for a while ive been trying to use kenshi's big leg outside of corner combos and began to end combos in DF1, Big Leg (F4). Its +2 and recovers very quickly on whiff if they delay a wakeup to where your poke will still win 99% of the time.

 

[Nexallus]

Still experimenting, but for a while ive been trying to use kenshi's big leg outside of corner combos and began to end combos in DF1, Big Leg (F4). Its +2 and recovers very quickly on whiff if they delay a wakeup to where your poke will still win 99% of the time.

Interesting, I will give this a try then.