PSA: Please Hold Off On Tier Lists, Suggested Patch Lists, Etc. For Now

[CrimsonShadow]

Hey Everyone!

So while I'm not against the general sentiment of thinking of ways to improve your character, what bothers me is the fact that when I look through these threads, 70% of the posters have no idea what they're talking about yet. I'm seeing incorrect descriptions of characters' strengths, complete lack of understanding of character weaknesses, and lots of talking that suggests people just need to play/lab more.

So for now, if I see anything along these lines, I'm going to close it.

For guys that want to discuss these things, just do it in your individual character forums, where (presumably) people know a little bit more about your characters' toolset. But right now, we need to be engaged in a period of learning, and not telling the developers what to do with the game 2 weeks in.

So I'm suggesting we all just take a deep breath, relax, and dive headlong into understanding and examining the game. Then in a few weeks, we can revisit this stuff and people can compile their suggestions into something more meaningful.

Cool? I love you guys -- hang in there!

 

[Eldriken]

This needs to be heavily enforced. Way too much of our forums are crowded with threads about this.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Well, it's your forum I guess. I suppose most are used to the idea of free flow of information whether a "good" or "bad" opinion. Censoring peoples views will just make them go elsewhere. I understand your reasoning though.

 

[Eldriken]

Well, it's your forum I guess. I suppose most are used to the idea of free flow of information whether a "good" or "bad" opinion. Censoring peoples views will just make them go elsewhere. I understand your reasoning though.

Yeah, just like making a tier list thread and getting raked across the coals from 90% of the community will make them go elsewhere as well. Gotta pick our battles.

 

[AK Harold]

Personally I like having the Day 2 tier lists etc. It opens up the discussion to match ups etc. They may all be wrong, but some people intrinsically do not understand a match up.

There are characters that have a sharp learning curve and others that don't, typically early tier lists reflect that. Just don't put it in stone. Hopefully, developers understand this and don't ruin their own game. All I ask is that anyone that does contribute to a list back it up through playing and not just conjecture.

Also, tier lists need to be assessed based on total match ups across the board. You will find the sleepers that are secret top tier because they have no weak match ups. They just do not stand out a lot against the current meta. Most tier lists are, oh hey i played this dude I lost he's good. Ok these tournaments were won thats it.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Yeah, just like making a tier list thread and getting raked across the coals from 90% of the community will make them go elsewhere as well. Gotta pick our battles.

I mean, it's not really something to get salty about, there's way more important things to moderate like basic human decency, namecalling etc etc. An opinion is just that... an opinion. Also these things have a way of sorting themselves out, the truth usually wins.. in the end.

By preventing talk about it, you're stifling discussions that would/may through reason change the view of those 70% "idiots"

 

[Shaka]

Too late.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Personally I like having the Day 2 tier lists etc. It opens up the discussion to match ups etc. They may all be wrong, but some people intrinsically do not understand a match up.

There are characters that have a sharp learning curve and others that don't, typically early tier lists reflect that. Just don't put it in stone. Hopefully, developers understand this and don't ruin their own game. All I ask is that anyone that does contribute to a list back it up through playing and not just conjecture.

Also, tier lists need to be assessed based on total match ups across the board. You will find the sleepers that are secret top tier because they have no weak match ups. They just do not stand out a lot against the current meta. Most tier lists are, oh hey i played this dude I lost he's good. Ok these tournaments were won thats it.

Understandable, but it's just as easy to create a matchup discussion thread. Then you're free to discuss meta without people being like "Make these patch changez right nowz!"

And at this point, a lot of people don't know MU's to begin with -- so to go along with your point, there are plenty of tiers based on "Eh I think this character is good/sucks at first glance without any MUs to back it up".

 

[CrimsonShadow]

So for example, if you want to make a thread called "How Strong is Black Canary?" and discuss it, that's cool. But if you make a thread called "These Are the Changes Black Canary Needs In a Patch" 2 weeks in, that's closed.

 

[Vengeance135]

While I agree with this for sure, I can't help but like the grouping of characters lol I think if people get salty enough off of what other people say about their character, they will actually take incentive to lab or even play games vs someone outside their friends list. One thing I'm having trouble with is getting people to actually play me in a set in this community. Sometimes when you open discussions up like that some people tend to step their game up and actually play games. Others just lose to a character and say the characters good because they got beat, which @AK Harold Just stated.

 

[SaltShaker]

Agree 100% with the OP.

I don't even think the "How strong is Black Canary" threads should be allowed right now, because sooner than later it'll regress into "buff Black Canary" with mediocre reasoning from less optimal play. I think the suggestion of characters strengths and weaknesses discussed in character forums and MU threads would be infinitely more effective and positive.

Shut em all down, rule with an iron fist.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Yeah it's tough to say how good your character is overall, but man...I can already tell you a handful of potentially bad MUs for my character. The real trick is to not make anything concrete as of yet.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

Agree 100% with the OP.

I don't even think the "How strong is Black Canary" threads should be allowed right now, because sooner than later it'll regress into "buff Black Canary" with mediocre reasoning from less optimal play. I think the suggestion of characters strengths and weaknesses discussed in character forums and MU threads would be infinitely more effective and positive.

Shut em all down, rule with an iron fist.

I get what you're saying but I think given the mass migration to Discord, banning that many types of threads would just straight up kill TYM.

 

[SaltShaker]

I get what you're saying but I think given the mass migration to Discord, banning that many types of threads would just straight up kill TYM.

TYM should be a place to discuss MUs, tech, character tools, even gear or casual play. Not 4 or 5 out of 10 threads on the recent list being "buff/nerf this character because I don't win". I mean I get killed by Adam, Darkseid, and Arrow, but I am 99% sure it's because I don't know the MUs so I am patiently waiting to improve and learn the game better. Not making threads to nerf them or buff Deadshot. It's silly. People going to discord is a separate problem, but if there was more meaningful discussion here maybe there wouldn't even be a need for it.

If these threads weren't so rampant it wouldn't need policing, but when it's becoming a place of "buff/nerf" threads over actual meaningful discussion there's a problem. They have to go so we can focus on actual discussion like we used to.

 

[VSC_Supreme]

Sounds like a good idea, the threads always devolved to name calling and character bashing with maybe 1 good post with great info 3 pages in.

The threads discussing specific character strengths and weaknesses contain more insightful discussion

 

[Shaka]

Sounds like a good idea, the threads always devolved to name calling and character bashing with maybe 1 good post with great info 3 pages in.

The threads discussing specific character strengths and weaknesses contain more insightful discussion

oh shut up scrub

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

TYM should be a place to discuss MUs, tech, character tools, even gear or casual play. Not 4 or 5 out of 10 threads on the recent list being "buff/nerf this character because I don't win". I mean I get killed by Adam, Darkseid, and Arrow, but I am 99% sure it's because I don't know the MUs so I am patiently waiting to improve and learn the game better. Not making threads to nerf them or buff Deadshot. It's silly. People going to discord is a separate problem, but if there was more meaningful discussion here maybe there wouldn't even be a need for it.

If these threads weren't so rampant it wouldn't need policing, but when it's becoming a place of "buff/nerf" threads over actual meaningful discussion there's a problem. They have to go so we can focus on actual discussion like we used to.

People enjoy talking about it, or speculating even. Why people take these threads so seriously is beyond me. An opinion is an opinion. If people can't talk about it here they will find somewhere else to do it. Not everyone wants the same thing you do. But if the admin wants this then that's perfectly his right.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Agree 100% with the OP.

I don't even think the "How strong is Black Canary" threads should be allowed right now, because sooner than later it'll regress into "buff Black Canary" with mediocre reasoning from less optimal play. I think the suggestion of characters strengths and weaknesses discussed in character forums and MU threads would be infinitely more effective and positive.

Shut em all down, rule with an iron fist.

Heavy Emphasis on LESS OPTIMAL play. Lol. Literally. But bias aside. These threads gotta stop. Pls

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I don't even think the "How strong is Black Canary" threads should be allowed right now, because sooner than later it'll regress into "buff Black Canary" with mediocre reasoning from less optimal play. I think the suggestion of characters strengths and weaknesses discussed in character forums and MU threads would be infinitely more effective and positive.

I don't want to completely shut down the discussion, though -- but I do want to make sure we're not making tons of "This is The Patch That's Needed Right Now" threads, because they are distracting at this point.

I still think there's a balance there -- like sometimes it's cool to get people from different character communities together to rap about MUs and stuff. Maybe we can just try to keep an eye on things, and just let people police themselves.

It's mainly the straight up "Here's what you need to patch after 2 weeks" threads that are grinding my gears.

 

[SaltShaker]

I don't want to completely shut down the discussion, though -- but I do want to make sure we're not making tons of "This is The Patch That's Needed Right Now" threads, because they are distracting at this point.

I still think there's a balance there -- like sometimes it's cool to get people from different character communities together to rap about MUs and stuff. Maybe we can just try to keep an eye on things, and just let people police themselves.

It's mainly the straight up "Here's what you need to patch after 2 weeks" threads that are grinding my gears.

So maybe an alternative could be one specific thread for "All Nerf/Buff Discussion Here" or something like that where it can all be in one place? That would allow people who enjoy it to discuss it, and not crowd the recent list with multiple threads of the same thing going on forever.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

So maybe an alternative could be one specific thread for "All Nerf/Buff Discussion Here" or something like that where it can all be in one place? That would allow people who enjoy it to discuss it, and not crowd the recent list with multiple threads of the same thing going on forever.

The reason why it is "crowded" with these threads is precisely because people want to talk about it. A single thread will not satiate the masses, censoring never has and never will work. As an admin myself, I realized that the only thing we're here for is damage control, to police personal attacks. The community will and should decide what they wish to talk about. The devs will do whatever they want regardless of the community over here. Here is a relatively small portion of the voices.

 

[Chakk dizzle]

This literally an unwinnable matchup as cheetah.


But really this is good. Props for saving us from becoming gamefaqs.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I think one universal tier list thread for everyone to share opinions on the games current state would be a better idea. Regardless how long the games been out, 2 years, 2 weeks, or 2 months tier lists are only relative to the CURRENT state of the game. They're also heavily based on opinion and a character that is giving you trouble is likely to be a bit higher on your tier list as opposed to anyone else's.

Regardless, no one truly wants a forum filled with everyone's opinionated tier lists, to remedy this keeping them all in one thread would reduce the clutter and keep things easily controlled.

As far as nerf/buff threads.... yeah fuck that. Waaaaaaaay to early to truly understand any given characters' potential. Most of these usually boil down to "My character isn't the top 5, make them top 5 so I don't have to work hard to truly understand what it takes to make the character work".

These are my opinions, but I believe you should people atleast ONE place to speak their piece. Except for cries of nerfs/buffs, give that another month or two before you allow those discussions to take place.

 

[chrisisnice]

To be honest... why do people have sookeries about people posting their tier lists etc???

If it is fun for them, why shouldn't they? It is not like you have to participate. As long as people keep it in one thread for now until the game is a little fleshed out, what is the big deal??? Just don't read it if it upsets you.

I am not particularly interested in them myself, but seriously, just let people have their fun.

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

Well, it's your forum I guess. I suppose most are used to the idea of free flow of information whether a "good" or "bad" opinion. Censoring peoples views will just make them go elsewhere. I understand your reasoning though.

I'm involved with a moderately sized comic book website, with an active Facebook page. We don't allow Vs. posts (Superman vs. Arm Fall Off Boy, who would win?) on anything but Sundays, because they drown out other posts and the point of our group isn't people bitching because they think Batman can beat literally everyone. It's the same deal, if you want to go to a site where you can demand buffs for your character in a 2 week old game, I'm sure there's one out there. This site is about discussing higher level play in NRS games.

I just wanna know why we gotta bring Black Canary into this? She's a delightful woman and shouldn't be besmirched in such a manner