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PSA: Please Hold Off On Tier Lists, Suggested Patch Lists, Etc. For Now

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
How much of MKX's threads were tier lists threads and buff suggestions? Granted I'm guilty of the "PLZ BUFF ME" thread thing, if you took every thread from MKX and put a percentage on the amount of tier list and buff me threads, it would probably no doubt exceed exceed 20%
 
The only thing I can suggest for now is to give editable clash quotes/ intros


I want to hear my WW quote 'less talking, more fighting' all the time.

And NERF Harley D2 pls
 
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Hey Everyone!

So while I'm not against the general sentiment of thinking of ways to improve your character, what bothers me is the fact that when I look through these threads, 70% of the posters have no idea what they're talking about yet. I'm seeing incorrect descriptions of characters' strengths, complete lack of understanding of character weaknesses, and lots of talking that suggests people just need to play/lab more.

So for now, if I see anything along these lines, I'm going to close it.

For guys that want to discuss these things, just do it in your individual character forums, where (presumably) people know a little bit more about your characters' toolset. But right now, we need to be engaged in a period of learning, and not telling the developers what to do with the game 2 weeks in.

So I'm suggesting we all just take a deep breath, relax, and dive headlong into understanding and examining the game. Then in a few weeks, we can revisit this stuff and people can compile their suggestions into something more meaningful.

Cool? I love you guys -- hang in there! :p
Do you not realize how contradictory that statement was? Either it's too early to tell or not, why are some people completely wrong about a character if the game has just come out? Your logic doesn't add up here
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Do you not realize how contradictory that statement was? Either it's too early to tell or not, why are some people completely wrong about a character if the game has just come out?
It's never to early to be caught stating something completely opposite to how a character functions in-game
 
Yes yes yes, because we always know which characters are worse than others weeks after release. Sometimes we even know who is bottom 3 after two weeks.

Tell me, when do we know that it has stopped being too early and we can decide on balancing? Is there a cue? Is there a timer? Is it when new tech stops being discovered? Is it when new tech is discovered?
This too early to tell sentiment really seems like just an attempt to delay the inevitable
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
What's puzzling to me is that you guys are the mods, if you do bring the hammer we can't say anything , so why have it as open discussion?

Do what you need to do to make it more organize because to be honest, you guys are not the best mods on the internet. You should take a lesson from SRK and Skullheart.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Tell me, when do we know that it has stopped being too early and we can decide on balancing? Is there a cue? Is there a timer? Is it when new tech stops being discovered? Is it when new tech is discovered?
This too early to tell sentiment really seems like just an attempt to delay the inevitable
I just gave you an example of a "F tier bottom 2 character" that was later found to be #1 in the game and later on banned after being fully explored. These are the types of assumptions you make when you barely know the game two weeks in. That's why it's too early. Or should Hilde have been "buffed because she was obviously D tier"?

There is no cue, no timer. However, MUs and characters should be fully explored before suggesting nerfs or buffs to avoid disaster, and to actually know what we're talking about.
 
I just gave you an example of a "F tier bottom 2 character" that was later found to be #1 in the game and later on banned after being fully explored. These are the types of assumptions you make when you barely know the game two weeks in. That's why it's too early. Or should Hilde have been "buffed because she was obviously D tier"?

There is no cue, no timer. However, MUs and characters should be fully explored before suggesting nerfs or buffs to avoid disaster, and to actually know what we're talking about.
My statement still stands...
When do we know when MUs and characters have been fully explored? Should we just never consider balancing because we may or may not know something?
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
My statement still stands...
When do we know when MUs and characters have been fully explored? Should we just never consider balancing because we may or may not know something?
Strawman.

What I am saying is two weeks is in no way to make any assumption on balance (like the many assumptions here in these threads), proven by countless examples. Characters who are deemed "bottom 5" have many times turned out to be top 5, and vice versa, no patching involved. I can give you plenty of examples.

If characters have been explored in all or at least most MUs, over thousands of games, among high level players, months later, then you can have a discussion on it that actually carries meaning.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
I just gave you an example of a "F tier bottom 2 character" that was later found to be #1 in the game and later on banned after being fully explored. These are the types of assumptions you make when you barely know the game two weeks in. That's why it's too early. Or should Hilde have been "buffed because she was obviously D tier"?

There is no cue, no timer. However, MUs and characters should be fully explored before suggesting nerfs or buffs to avoid disaster, and to actually know what we're talking about.
Wasn't Morrigan considered bottom tier until ChrisG discovered the Morridoom team?
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
My statement still stands...
When do we know when MUs and characters have been fully explored? Should we just never consider balancing because we may or may not know something?
This is actually a fair question if you think about it.

I'm curious to know myself.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
This is actually a fair question if you think about it.

I'm curious to know myself.
It isn't really something you can answer black and white though. Like, you can't say "in 3 months we will commence balance talks" lol. I think it's a grey area where you simply have to know what you're talking about. I could tell you the ins and outs of Raven's MUs against the entire Inj1 roster, but wouldn't dare say I can comment on a single MU in Inj2 yet balance-wise, regardless of the ones I find easy and the ones I can't win.

I think once you have a solid grasp and understanding of your character and the MU in question, you can have the discussion. Can be next month, the month after, but it's a "you know" moment if you're being honest with yourself. The problem is that in 2 weeks no one has that understanding yet because not enough has been learned, so you get a multitude of threads with "buff this guy" and "nerf that guy" with no real context of the characters or understanding of the MUs.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
alright i guess i just won't discuss anything about the game for another 2 months lel

at least make like a "Match-Up Discussion" megathread so people can pour into it and talk
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
My statement still stands...
When do we know when MUs and characters have been fully explored? Should we just never consider balancing because we may or may not know something?
I wouldn't be too scientific about it -- but it seems like once you're past the 3rd or 4th week people start to have a better idea what's going on. Just observing the ratio of information to misinformation in these threads right now though, we're not really there yet.

Which is entirely natural for a game that's been out for 2 weeks.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
This thread went from a "let's not talk about this" to "lets all talk about how to not talk about this because talking about this is too early but then again we should talk about this because it's needed for development, however, we shouldn't talk about this because it's unnecessary..." :rolleyes:
 
It isn't really something you can answer black and white though. Like, you can't say "in 3 months we will commence balance talks" lol. I think it's a grey area where you simply have to know what you're talking about. I could tell you the ins and outs of Raven's MUs against the entire Inj1 roster, but wouldn't dare say I can comment on a single MU in Inj2 yet balance-wise, regardless of the ones I find easy and the ones I can't win.

I think once you have a solid grasp and understanding of your character and the MU in question, you can have the discussion. Can be next month, the month after, but it's a "you know" moment if you're being honest with yourself. The problem is that in 2 weeks no one has that understanding yet because not enough has been learned, so you get a multitude of threads with "buff this guy" and "nerf that guy" with no real context of the characters or understanding of the MUs.
"It isn't really something you can answer black and white though."
That's the point. You cant say something so black and white as you havent spent enough time on the game so you cant determine balance. Sure we are not as informed as we could be, but that doesnt mean we arent informed and it doesnt mean we will ever be done discovering things or know we are done. You're still capable of determining balance at the current state of the game its just you can never guarantee that it will stay this way.
 

Killjoy McGee

[Hype Intensifies]
Honestly I'm gonna miss seeing all the ridiculous buff/nerf threads, but it's probably for the best! Glad someone put their foot down.