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PS4 Pro is like a 5 years old PC and holding developers back...

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
The only thing more "powerful" here would be the 980, and you're missing stuff like the OS and fans. Also 450 is not 15% more than 250. The point of the article was to shit on the console specs. Nobody cares about the specs everyone just cares about quality games. I have no idea what any of your responses are or your point is besides being edgy.
Oh Cossner :p There's a big difference between a 980 and a 950.. And I think he meant PS4 Pro, which is the more expensive system.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
Actually we knew exactly what we were talking about. The point was, they are still incredible games -- as *games*. Making a subpar game with amazing graphics (The Order, anyone?) really doesn't count for much in an era where there are so many legitimately great games coming out each year.

So the point was, if your game, as a *game*, is not as good as titles like that, stop complaining about the hardware and make better games.
You can make incredible games for Playstation 1 even today if thats what you want. And this argument doesn't negate the other one.

Yes developers should always focus on making the game great itself and yes console hardware is very limiting when it comes to graphics and many other aspects of the games.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
You can make incredible games for Playstation 1 even today if thats what you want. And those arguments don't exclude itself.

Yes developers should always focus on making the game great itself and yes console hardware is very limiting when it comes to graphics and many other aspects of the games.
The reason PS1 is a bad example is that you'd have actual gameplay limitations.

When people talk about the console/PC divide right now, 99% of what they're saying isn't about limits to the actual gameplay. It's about graphics.

Theoretically it's possible that some amazing game could drop that somehow otherwise makes use of PC hardware. But, it hasn't happened yet. So it's basically about whether you just want a prettier version of the same game you'd get on console.

In my opinion, the biggest limitation of consoles is actually the lack of keyboard and mouse -- which is just a result of the developers being silly and has nothing to do with how powerful the hardware is.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
As for GPU in consoles. Its pretty straight forward.

Xbox One - has a modified Radeon 7850.
Playstation 4 - has a modified Radeon 7870.
Playstation 4 Pro - has a modified Radeon RX 480.

But also keep in mind that CPU in consoles (based on Jaguar architecture) is VERY weak, its like tablet class processor, which is no where near several years old i5. There are other hardware limitation in consoles (shared memory and more).

The reason PS1 is a bad example is that you'd have actual gameplay limitations.

When people talk about the console/PC divide right now, 99% of what they're saying isn't about limits to the actual gameplay. It's about graphics.

Theoretically it's possible that some amazing game could drop that somehow otherwise makes use of PC hardware. But, it hasn't happened yet. So it's basically about whether you just want a prettier version of the same game you'd get on console.

In my opinion, the biggest limitation of consoles is actually the lack of keyboard and mouse -- which is just a result of the developers being silly and has nothing to do with how powerful the hardware is.
PS1 was a fine example, coz you can make simple yet very good game. Not every great game in history was complex. So while it would make no sense to make it now, it's possible.

As for amazing games using current PC power its just a simple matter of business, nothing more.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
I know what juggs are buddy I wasn't born yesterday. I know the difference of a 7/10 and a 10/10. I would never say a 7/10 is hot. ALSO, if they are too fat they are not in the 7 category.
I'm getting such a trollish vibe from you.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Actually we knew exactly what we were talking about. The point was, they are still incredible games -- as *games*. Making a subpar game with amazing graphics (The Order, anyone?) really doesn't count for much in an era where there are so many legitimately great games coming out each year.

So the point was, if your game, as a *game*, is not as good as titles like that, stop complaining about the hardware and make better games.
The Order was a PS4 exclusive so how the fck lol

You've been given flat out examples of amazing PC games being held back from being even more incredible, what more do you people need to admit this MIGHT just be a thing?


The only thing more "powerful" here would be the 980, and you're missing stuff like the OS and fans. Also 450 is not 15% more than 250. The point of the article was to shit on the console specs. Nobody cares about the specs everyone just cares about quality games, plus the PC market is different than the console market. My cousins are not gonna build a custom PC. I have no idea what any of your responses are or your point is besides being edgy.
edgy? super ironic coming from you

Maybe I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, but right next to Pigs post that you couldn't build a PC the same quality as a PS4 for the same price point, I thought that was what you are saying. If its not, then im still unsure what point you were trying to get across other than 'look at me, big edgy meme being cynical about this thread'. As I said, It's a bookmarked link I had from over a year ago, the PS4 was $350 at the time and this was $400. As hardware changes so do prices, as I said I'm not going to look at how to do it nowadays I'm not even sure what the directequivalents for the pro even are, I'm just making the point that you don't need an expensive to play game equivalent to consoles on a PC, a common misconception that spawns from the price of the tech ceiling, not the floor. If your post wasn't saying this the one directly following it certainly was.

the point of the article was that PC games aren't being released as high quality as they would be. People have said otherwise and now have been outright proved wrong, hence the "point" of my responses here. It's edgy to correct misinformation nowadays? Or do you just not like whats being said
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
The Order was a PS4 exclusive so how the fck lol

You've been given flat out examples of amazing PC games being held back from being even more incredible, what more do you people need to admit this MIGHT just be a thing?
Just giving an example of a game that put the focus on graphics and then was quickly forgotten due to the gameplay itself being forgettable.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Just giving an example of a game that put the focus on graphics and then was quickly forgotten due to the gameplay itself being forgettable.
definitely, and we agree where the focus should be placed, but its kind of a moot point coming right after an example of one of the highest user rated game of all time on metacritic being scaled down MASSIVELY to work cross platform instead of just PC. Console holding back PC graphics affects both good games and bad games
 
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Eldriken

Guest
definitely, and we agree where the focus should be placed, but its kind of a moot point coming right after an example of one of the highest user rated game of all time on metacritic being scaled down MASSIVELY to work cross platform instead of just PC. Console holding back PC graphics affects both good games and bad games
Yeah, well, for me graphics =/= a fun game.

The graphics being better than they are now won't make the game more fun. That's entirely dependent on the game's mechanics.

I obviously don't speak for everyone with the above, but I'm certainly not the only person who feels this way.

Some of us simply do not care and there's nothing wrong with it (not implying you're saying there is).

Better technology doesn't always mean better games.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Yeah, well, for me graphics =/= a fun game.

The graphics being better than they are now won't make the game more fun. That's entirely dependent on the game's mechanics.

I obviously don't speak for everyone with the above, but I'm certainly not the only person who feels this way.

Some of us simply do not care and there's nothing wrong with it (not implying you're saying there is).

Better technology doesn't always mean better games.
You are still completely missing the point here.

It doesn't matter if its a great game, or a terrible game. It can still be held back by this. The Witcher 3's outstanding reviews (highest user reviewed game of ALL TIME on metacritic, tied with Portal) shows they made NO compromise to gameplay for graphical quality. However, the video quality of the game was STILL massively impacted in a negative by console restrictions, in the words of their own lead designer, "gutted". In fact, he outright stated the added complications of having to build around the consoles, that COST them resources that could have potentially been dedicated to gameplay, as did the developer in the original post, who stated "Most of the work developers put out there is to make them work on consoles.”.

It doesn't matter if you personally care about it or not, this article was not made to tell you to change what you look for in a game, it was made to say that this is the state of our technology in game design right now, and this is why its being held back. Regardless of what you may think, this is not common knowledge, and most developers will shy around the issue to avoid upsetting a potential market with zero financial investment gained for opening their mouth. Hence why this article is making news on gaming websites at the moment.

That being said, if your opinion is that you would just as happily play the exact same game except with downgraded graphics rather than the one with better graphics and it would have zero effect on you, then its fine. But its clear you have zero interest in the tech race or in seeing games be as good or immersive as they could be or utilize the current tech available, so it makes a person wonder why you would get invested in an argument about such. Practically every reviewer even consumer reviews, gives higher marks for greater graphics, so you are by far in the minority if greater graphics don't improve the overall quality of a game for you. However, nobody's telling you that you personally have to care about graphics. Just that if you DO care about them, know that the current state of consoles is holding back what developers are capable of, more so than ever in today as the gap is only widening, and the pinnacle of console tech currently in PS4Pro, is where the PC was at FIVE years ago, which is a massive disconnect technologically.
 
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MadPropz101

"I still got it...but not much of it"
how are you missing that this is exactly the point? Games, especially multiplatform ones, will only ever be as strong as the weakest link in platforms. PC might look a bit better at the end of the day due to consoles losing some quality through the optimisation process for the weaker tech, but as you say its not going to be too different in most cases. The point is that it could be, and the games we have the potential to be playing on a PC can't be made until the console can play them too, because investments into something that PCs are capable of are just wasted funding for 2/3 consoles, or even worse would stop them from being able to run on it in a playable state at all. BTW 780ti is pretty outdated tech nowadays, that is not a 1500 dollar pc today if that is your platform you personally are obviously being held back by nothing. That doesnt mean that PC gaming as a whole is not being held back however.



I guess you missed that Metro reveal huh
PC gaming is held back also because not a lot of people have money for a high-end rig, and you can never optimize the games as well as you can for one console.
The 780ti is more than fine for playing anything at max settings still.
And yeah, i've seen the Metro reveal and it's awesome, but Spider-Man won E3.
 

Aramonde

Noob
It's easy for devs to come out and say this when they don't have to worry about making and selling a new console.

The reason Sony hasn't brought out a new console is because they have the biggest install base and they are still selling.

What should Sony do? Come with a super expensive console thats comparable to a good PC? They did that last gen and it bit them in the ass.

If that Dev and PC players wish consoles were gone entirely well their not and people keep buying them so keep crying and keep jerking yourselves off thinking your so smart and everyone else is so dumb.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
PC gaming is held back also because not a lot of people have money for a high-end rig, and you can never optimize the games as well as you can for one console.
Maybe. There is an argument there that if console players were on PC, their PC wouldn't able to run such games. However scaleable graphics make that much less of an impact, at the bare minimum you would be able to see vast improvements at the quality of games released today played at max settings.

The 780ti is more than fine for playing anything at max settings still.
If you feel a graphics card released 4 years ago is more than fine to run anything available on todays gaming market at full graphics, this just supports the statement that todays video games are being designed to use tech from 5 years ago, not tech from today.


And yeah, i've seen the Metro reveal and it's awesome, but Spider-Man won E3.
Well, we are talking about the two games I was most excited for from E3, so I'm not even going to put them against each other. Possibly even more excited for Spider-Man since we've already got 2 incredible / borderline flawless games with the Metro series, but haven't seen a good Spidey in a long time. My point was however, Metro is looking alot better graphically, that game looks absolutely stunning, and was definitely the most incredible thing I saw there.
 

VSC_Supreme

TYM's #1 L taker.
I agree I think you can find a ton of examples of developers downgrading their games for console. Watchdogs being a huge offender.

And it's not just graphics. Load times, framerates, draw distances, etc. Are all being held back.

I will say though that good developers will be smart about these limitations and they always have been. From modern day Horizon making the most of the tech, to Silent Hill on the PS1 making smart use of fog to cover up being unable to render large parts of the game at once.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
I agree I think you can find a ton of examples of developers downgrading their games for console. Watchdogs being a huge offender.

And it's not just graphics. Load times, framerates, draw distances, etc. Are all being held back.

I will say though that good developers will be smart about these limitations and they always have been. From modern day Horizon making the most of the tech, to Silent Hill on the PS1 making smart use of fog to cover up being unable to render large parts of the game at once.
Silent Hill 1 scared the shit out of me. We need another Silent Hill that's similar to 1-3.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Silent Hill 1 scared the shit out of me. We need another Silent Hill that's similar to 1-3.
Man we were sooooo close with the Playable Trailer and Silent Hills.. And then... :( Haha


It's hard to think of the last time a game was legitimately that scary. But I feel like there's room to do it now, and an audience for it. You could make an Alien: Isolation/Dead Space style game that's legitimately scary, instead of just jump scares/gross-out and monsters.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Man we were sooooo close with the Playable Trailer and Silent Hills.. And then... :( Haha


It's hard to think of the last time a game was legitimately that scary. But I feel like there's room to do it now, and an audience for it. You could make an Alien: Isolation/Dead Space style game that's legitimately scary, instead of just jump scares/gross-out and monsters.
All subjective but SOMA was basically all built around atmosphere, with fuck all jump scares if any, i dont recall any

Layers of Fear was pretty damn awesome, it had "jump scares" i guess but none were really at all scary, it was more atmospheric

Neverending Nightmares was great too


Amnesia is the greatest horror game I've played has maybe one real jumpscare


STALKER series has some great moments but its not all horror its a mix of other things too, thats part of what makes the scary parts work in it but you have to be looking for more than just horror. Metro series has elements of this too.



just some suggestions that I played that you might enjoy, theres probably others i havent played or cant think of right now
 

Swindle

Philanthropist & Asshole
What is the best PC with a really good graphics card that i can buy? I've been wanting to get a PC but I want to make sure it lasts, and is really good for games.

Also I have quite a budget, but any tips on saving money would be welcome.
Get as PS4 Pro and a Macbook. You'll be happier. PC's are just fucking money pits, and anyone who says otherwise is a communist fudge-toucher.