Proposed Nerf Discussion

[ClayW]

Posted a matchup chart a while back. Not gonna post another one but I think she loses only two matchups 6-4 and a handful of 5-5s are hard but everything is manageable. I think catwoman red hood and supergirl are the only characters in the game you could exclusively main in tourney and do somewhat well. Dr fate might be top 5 but you still need a backup.

Supergirl is giving people a hard time and everyone is screaming for nerfs, and my proposed nerfs are not what people thing, but I urge you to consider it.

B12 breath and d1 breath each have a gap to accommodate 8f/9f pokes respectively. If every character could full combo her gaps, then it would balance her out without changing her playstyle. Too many people, myself included, are doing b12 breath on characters that should be able to interrupt but are fearful of doing so.

I welcome any thoughts or other proposed changes.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Prepatch damage & slower lasers.

 

[RevetLeafing]

Catwoman: 1 f2 is now -5
Walk Speed Toned down

Supergirl: Lasers no longer knock down
Teleport is now a splat knock down unless EX

Black Adam: Trait no longer Kills
Chipped down some of the plus frames he has

Scarecrow: Trait no longer Kills

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I'm wholeheartedly on the " no kills on passive traits" train. I just don't like it on a fundamental level.

 

[Vengeance135]

Catwoman: 1 f2 is now -5
Walk Speed Toned down

Supergirl: Lasers no longer knock down
Teleport is now a splat knock down unless EX

Black Adam: Trait no longer Kills
Chipped down some of the plus frames he has

Scarecrow: Trait no longer Kills

All of what you said plus traits like superman shouldn't break super armor. Other armor fine but super? You're characters deadliest move? No. That's a huge slap in the face. If you make the read and pop super to punish their gap or move you shouldn't be penalized because of their trait being active.

Recovery on savage blast should be toned down. I mean seriously...

Mantas backdash. The invincibility, distance and speed is absolutely ridiculous.

Make wonder womans lasso grab parriable. I don't understand why you can parry her lasso overhead and not the grab.

That's all I got right now.

 

[DarksydeDash]

She's not too Overpowered TBH, just has too many tools that can be too strong.

That said I have changes that would help tone her down but not kill the character.

-breath is clashable
- Trait uses up more of the meter and the trait recharges slower (3 shots instead of 5 when rapid fired)
- Less hit advantage on MB Breath
-increased hurtbox on d1 to prevent low profiling
-less hit advantage on b123
-112 becomes 0 on block instead of +3
B12xx breath is now a 7 frame gap.
- Increased whiff recovery on BF3 so she can't just say "screw playing neutral" and get in whenever she wants. She has a teleport to take that risk.

 

[foxof42]

I think nerfing trait kills but still allowing for any other chipout would be somewhat silly. If Crow wasn't chipping your last 2% with trait, or Ivy, or Atrocitus, or Darkseid, or Swamp Thing, or Black Adam (and so on), it would just be a meter burned move to do the same. Granted, I don't think Crow's trait should have ANY affect while you are hurting him. I think that if you manage to land a long combo that disables trait and Oki him, you deserve a comeback. Chipout? Sure. Kamikaze wins? Pretty cheesey.

I think bigger gaps for Supergirl would be fantastic. It would encourage smarter play. Her lasers are fine, she should just have less access to them. Like... A lot less. Throwing out a laser in neutral should feel like coming off of a valuable resource. It would keep them as a counter zoning tool and would make laserwalk a bigger cash out.

Catwoman would be fine if her hurtbox issues were fixed. Her B3 is not ok. Her backdash is also a little nuts. I don't think her plus frames need nerfing if those happen.

Black Adam's plus frames are kinda ridiculous, there's no reason to have something be plus all the way up into the 20s. That's some prepatch Lao BS. His MB divekick should also be minus from every height and maybe startup just a few frames slower. Possibly make black magic more minus? I think a fullscreen combo starter should warrant significant risk.

Aside from all that, maybe add a little more recovery to Hellboy's gun in the style of Red Hood's gun. It's a little too good right now.

 

[Crusty]

I’d personally make her walking heat vision a duckable high

 

[Vengeance135]

I’d personally make her walking heat vision a duckable high

I would f***ing love this. I can't tell you how many times I had to take an L because of that shits chip.

 

[NothingPersonal]

I'd give her a buff tbh. I'd buff her...

Spoiler

Boobs

 

[Laos_boy]

MAKE BREATHE 1 FRAME SLOWER gives us more of a gap without messing with B12 and D1

D1 IS NOW 8F but d2 is now 6f. Give her something

Trait takes more meter.

MB breathe is now -8

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Supergirl actually isn’t very OP imo. I do think she is the strongest character though because she is the only one that runs into (imo) no losing matchups. She doesn’t need much at all because she doesn’t do any one thing too well, just does EVERYTHING.

- make MB breath the same on block regardless of distance.
-pre patch damage

This way she still has her safety and still has an amazing neutral. She still does the same thing, just LESS of it. Just like the Batman and Red Hood nerfs.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Supergirl actually isn’t very OP imo. I do think she is the strongest character though because she is the only one that runs into (imo) no losing matchups. She doesn’t need much at all because she doesn’t do any one thing too well, just does EVERYTHING.

- make MB breath the same on block regardless of distance.
-pre patch damage

This way she still has her safety and still has an amazing neutral. She still does the same thing, just LESS of it. Just like the Batman and Red Hood nerfs.

I don't agree with no losing matchups = too good. Idealy, every character in this game should be as close to having no losing MU's as possible.

 

[Cursa]

I don't agree with no losing matchups = too good. Idealy, every character in this game should be as close to having no losing MU's as possible.

This is true, but obviously not every character has no losing matches while super girl has close to 0. Therefore, she's probably a little good right now

 

[M.D.]

Scarecrow: Trait no longer Kills

So I was preparing to foam at the mouth post such a gruesome horrible post with every insult known to man that would not only get me ip banned from the forum but actually arrested and on the 10 most wanted list, when I read that, BUT THEN BY MISTAKE I LOOKED A BIT DOWN AND SAW THIS:

traits like bane level 3 shouldn't break super armor.

SO BASICALLY THE FACT THAT I RISK A 900DAMAGE COMBO DEBUFF that gets resetted on each clash transition super SO THATICAN BREAKARMORR FOR 3 SOECONIDSI S IS NEEDS NERFONI doif mother ifojd oi jg mpieapcm jmgkjfjfdgjmkbkv\bkgk gf g klg o 443$# O%O%%#)5 ))65)3)) @)$)2)$)@)$)%)^%)%$^)%$)^

 

[Cursa]

Personally I feel her D1 is probably her best tool due to it's range and being a low. I feel as robin she can just do D1+Breath and stagger the end of it to just for you to block for so long

I feel like the gap between D1 and breath should come back, or frost breath shouldn't have so much pushback so that she can basically do an uncontested 7 frame D1 because of it

But I hate this matchup and am trash at it so yeah

 

[Moms4lif3]

I never really got why mb breath was safe to begin with. Before patch it made sense, since her damage output was so low. But now? How can a character like her have a safe (or even plus lol) combo starter while characters like Cold or canary must hit confirm every time or get punished. Also you can late mb the breath, this makes it hard to punish even on no mb sometimes.

 

[Cursa]

I never really got why mb breath was safe to begin with. Before patch it made sense, since her damage output was so low. But now? How can a character like her have a safe (or even plus lol) combo starter while characters like Cold or canary must hit confirm every time or get punished. Also you can late mb the breath, this makes it hard to punish even on no mb sometimes.

I think the fact that the MB can be delayed to mess up punishes is really annoying to deal with for a move that is safe on MB and also launches. There's also a gap I think between the normal breath and the MB part so if you try to press a button expecting her to cancel it early you get frozen into a full combo, which I find kind of annoying that you get punished for trying to punish an unsafe move.

 

[RevetLeafing]

So I was preparing to foam at the mouth post such a gruesome horrible post with every insult known to man that would not only get me ip banned from the forum but actually arrested and on the 10 most wanted list, when I read that, BUT THEN BY MISTAKE I LOOKED A BIT DOWN AND SAW THIS:



SO BASICALLY THE FACT THAT I RISK A 900DAMAGE COMBO DEBUFF that gets resetted on each clash transition super SO THATICAN BREAKARMORR FOR 3 SOECONIDSI S IS NEEDS NERFONI doif mother ifojd oi jg mpieapcm jmgkjfjfdgjmkbkv\bkgk gf g klg o 443$# O%O%%#)5 ))65)3)) @)$)2)$)@)$)%)^%)%$^)%$)^

Sister. Contain your anger. There is enough violence in this world. It's just an opinion sis. Calm down

 

[Moms4lif3]

I find kind of annoying that you get punished for trying to punish an unsafe move.

Exactly. It is not only annoying it is pretty unfair imo. You need to make a 'read' in order to punish an 'unsafe' move? Sounds like BS to me, I'm sorry. Oh and also the move breaks armor are you serious?

 

[South]

Personally I feel her D1 is probably her best tool due to it's range and being a low. I feel as robin she can just do D1+Breath and stagger the end of it to just for you to block for so long

I feel like the gap between D1 and breath should come back, or frost breath shouldn't have so much pushback so that she can basically do an uncontested 7 frame D1 because of it

But I hate this matchup and am trash at it so yeah

This where I disagree tbh... my Robin training partners ALL punish her gaps the easiest out all.. with there dp it's literally a auto punish

 

[Cursa]

Exactly. It is not only annoying it is pretty unfair imo. You need to make a 'read' in order to punish an 'unsafe' move? Sounds like BS to me, I'm sorry. Oh and also the move breaks armor are you serious?

Plus the pushback on it makes it difficult to punish consistently as well and her D1 reaches so far to compensate. The whole frost breath mechanic is really my only gripe with her, lasers, B12 and her air mobility are all fine for me it's just frost breath is consistently inconsistent.

 

[Cursa]

This where I disagree tbh... my Robin training partners ALL punish her gaps the easiest out all.. with there dp it's literally a auto punish

From my experience if I try and DP and she MBs the breath then I just get frozen and combo'd.

 

[colby4898]

There's almost no point in her having a trait bar because it recharges so fast and a shot uses so little. She may as well just have unlimited access (unless ofc she does the big laser thing).

Laser uses more meter and/or trait recharges slower.

Increased recovery on her dash spin move thing.

Reduce walk speed.

Increase damage scaling when using her air float thing mid combo. This would still give her high mid screen damage, but tones it down a bit in the corner with the loops.

Slower start up on breath so its easier to interrupt.

 

[Barrogh]

Black Adam: Trait no longer Kills
Scarecrow: Trait no longer Kills

"And one more thing. There's no more Regime out there. We. Do. Not. Kill."