General/Other - Hunter PREDATOR - When the hunter becomes the hunted

[ColdSpine]

Hello TYM !

please note: i am not here to complain, downplay or ask for either buffs or nerfs. its just a simple thread to see the variation hunter through other`s perspective and what they think about it in comparison to hish qu ten.



Now, i have played the hunter variation heavily since predator release. Indeed, its a variation built around trapping and controlling space or as some people like to call it: Subzero 2.0.

Admittedly, this variation has a strong set up aspect and a very mind confusing one, However, the more i play the more i begin to see lots of flaws down the road. So far, hunter only shines on knockdown.

I have noticed that i am very limited in the blockstrings, wake ups and safety department. So i went to the lab and tried to break things down , so i picked subzero as my opponent and set the icy slide reversal to see how things go regarding both his strings gaps and cancelling mid or at the end of the string into either disc or trap and it kinda put me off. because i realized :

blockstrings:
- 212 interruptible before last hit
- 211 interrutible before last hit
- b22d2 interruptible before last hit

cancels:
- 21 disk, trap or ex trap interruptible
- 122 disk, trap or ex trap interruptible
- b22 disk, trap or ex trap interruptible
- 32 disk, trap or ex trap interruptible
- d4 disk, trap or ex trap interruptible
- b311 disk, trap or ex trap interruptible
- f12 disk, trap or ex trap interruptible


The only true blockstring that cannot be interrupted is 4 ex trap, which is ironically very similar to subzero`s only safe f4 clone cancel. Now, the predator is generally slow compared to most of the cast although he excels at the range department. His wake up game is rather poor and he is easily rushed down with no real answer to characters in your face, apart from d3.

Well, applying the aforementioned cancels only with Hish qu ten variation, ending with a close low plasma shot, not a single time subzero was able to interrupt me which means there were no gaps and i was -1 which is safety.

Now, this really made me wonder, how good is this variation and is the predator really a solid character with all those gaps and below average speed, or is it because its a recently released character and something new?

My attention is shifting automatically towards Hish qu ten in the last few days because they share the same universal damaging combos and here you have the plasma which is good at mix ups, excellent recovery and its literally a meter filling machine.

Keep in mind, if we are talking about an armored launcher like kung lao`s spin it means you might get launched every time you try these primary strings or cancels, against someone who knows the gaps of course since most of them are slow and visually recognizable.


My question is, do you see this variation as a good competitive one that is going to leave a mark on the long run or is it just a matter of time before everyone moves on?


I am very interested in hearing your thoughts everyone, thank you !

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

In my experience hunter is great. His game is harder to set up than most in the game, as that is the nature of a set up character, they need to set things up. However once you get going you can control the screen well with projectiles and traps. If your opponent is throwing projectiles to try and keep you from getting things on the screen, you can jump over and catch them with an ex snag on recovery, or just ex SS through for a combo. Once they start respecting you, you can start to put things on the screen and get your game going. If they are trying to get up close to you and stop you from getting things out that way, you have a great d4 and you can also put a trap in front of you to keep their options limited and then it will be easier to read that jump in, dash up, or armor. If predator had those regular tools that other characters had, he would be stupid. Instead you have to be creative with him. His kind of tools are very versatile as they can be used to limit your opponents options in ways that both make them be respectful (a trap and disk in between you and them) or force action (a trap down and predator running in for a throw onto it). So basically, the tools are there, they will just take some figuring out. But once they are figured out they will be deadly.

 

[Immortal Reaver]

I've been debating on either sticking with Hunter or converting over to HQT. When I'm losing with Hunter, I usually see myself switching to HQT. I just like the fact that you don't need meter to get things going, or need to start setting things up. but Hunter does feel really good when you have your momentum going. I might stick with Hunter and grind it out to see how it goes.

 

[aieches]

i think as of now.. HQT is the best ( read wisest) variation in most match ups but personally i cant stop playing hunter cause of fun factor.

 

[Slips]

I don't play Hunter because those mines spawned from AvP2 and that movie sucked balls.

Any real Predator fan should be playing one of the other two.

 

[Immortal Reaver]

I don't play Hunter because those mines spawned from AvP2 and that movie sucked balls.

Any real Predator fan should be playing one of the other two.

0/10

 

[sub_on_dubs]

Yeah, I noticed the same thing. Also, it seems like he gets outzoned pretty easily with traps and discs going away on block and hit. If you can get a knockdown, you have to take advantage of it and keep looping traps. Hish qu ten seems like the best for sure.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I don't play Hunter because those mines spawned from AvP2 and that movie sucked balls.

Any real Predator fan should be playing one of the other two.

 

[ando1184]

To be honest I completely agree with OP that this variation is lacking. He is a setup character but a delayed wakeup nullifies the majority of his setups. I've even had a throw whiff while the opponent was crouch blocking the mine after a delayed wakeup. And if I tried a string that does an OH, they block in time. It seems his setups are really only viable in the corner imo. That being said, I think if they just adjusted his f212 string to start OH instead of end OH that might help in making mine more of a dangerous tool.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I don't play Hunter because those mines spawned from AvP2 and that movie sucked balls.

Any real Predator fan should be playing one of the other two.

I know I know. That's literally the only thing that makes me sad about paying hunter. But it's just too awesome.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

To be honest I completely agree with OP that this variation is lacking. He is a setup character but a delayed wakeup nullifies the majority of his setups. I've even had a throw whiff while the opponent was crouch blocking the mine after a delayed wakeup. And if I tried a string that does an OH, they block in time. It seems his setups are really only viable in the corner imo. That being said, I think if they just adjusted his f212 string to start OH instead of end OH that might help in making mine more of a dangerous tool.

But ex trap is super good in the neutral so that can help you get things going. Also if they delay wake up I've been experimenting with exploding the trap which otgs and puts you at advantage. Even if you just stand over them and grab them off of the advantage you get from them blocking the mine, it's not bad. I'm not saying the variation is God tier but I certainly wouldn't call it lacking. Honestly we still don't know anything and we should all be playing instead of speculating. But alas, speculation is fun

 

[ando1184]

But ex trap is super good in the neutral so that can help you get things going. Also if they delay wake up I've been experimenting with exploding the trap which otgs and puts you at advantage. Even if you just stand over them and grab them off of the advantage you get from them blocking the mine, it's not bad. I'm not saying the variation is God tier but I certainly wouldn't call it lacking. Honestly we still don't know anything and we should all be playing instead of speculating. But alas, speculation is fun

I'll try and mess with that too then. I'm not just speculating, it's just every offline match I had wasn't paying off for setups. I just felt that his tools didn't mesh well in this variation compared to others. And it sucks if traps are only effective with meter

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I'll try and mess with that too then. I'm not just speculating, it's just every offline match I had wasn't paying off for setups. I just felt that his tools didn't mesh well in this variation compared to others. And it sucks if traps are only effective with meter

But how many matches could you possibly have had in less than a week? We need a lot more time optimizing everything about him before we talk about how strong he is. Especially as he is a trap/setup character which usually take way longer to flesh out in an nrs game as they are more complicated than the average character. A good example of this is Zod in injustice. He had a lot of aspects of a setup character and it took a long while before things got optimized. By the end of the game's life, a lot of the blockstrings mixups and such that zod had were super fucked up. Even Lex, although not an amazing character, had a pretty fair amount of dirt after a while. What I'm saying is, don't panic. Just play and explore.

 

[Reauxbot]

Honestly if delayed wakeup and everything else didnt work out too well for your opponent, then you see Predator take some nerfs. I havent played Hunter in quite a while either for similar reasons. But the EX Trap does get a lot of people off gaurd. And the saw blade seems kinda weak as while. Opponents can react to it and get it off the screen via projectile.
Also Hunter seems to build no meter... I swear i buildike 2 bars a match...

 

[The_Tile]

I'll try and mess with that too then. I'm not just speculating, it's just every offline match I had wasn't paying off for setups. I just felt that his tools didn't mesh well in this variation compared to others. And it sucks if traps are only effective with meter

I was doing delayed wakeup all the time vs a friend and he started doing delayed NJP to hit me as I got up and it's a pseudo-unblockable, very scary stuff. Hunter has options for every one of the opponents counters, I think he's a scary character once he gets his momentum, pretty similar to Summoner. Hish is definitely his better variation though, seems like a more solid character and being able to hit confirm really easy using the PCCancels is really useful, as are the plus frames on block.

 

[ando1184]

I was doing delayed wakeup all the time vs a friend and he started doing delayed NJP to hit me as I got up and it's a pseudo-unblockable, very scary stuff. Hunter has options for every one of the opponents counters, I think he's a scary character once he gets his momentum, pretty similar to Summoner. Hish is definitely his better variation though, seems like a more solid character and being able to hit confirm really easy using the PCCancels is really useful, as are the plus frames on block.

I have already been doing the njp as well but if done as soon as he starts falling, its still considered a mid hitting attack. His njp doesn't become an OH until halfway down his njp animation and by then the opponent has already blocked the low trap and can easily identify the OH njp. This is another reason I feel the way I do about this character. Not only that, but tech roll beats trap just as easily as well, and If I do a hardknockdown instead, they can just wakeup and knock me out of setting up trap because of the recovery on the move. I'm trying my best to test this stuff as accurately as possible and everything I try goes south

 

[WakeUp DP]

I agree that he has tons of gaps and weaknesses. Why I'm against people asking for nerfs.

I'm not asking for buffs either, just let him be for a while.

 

[The_Tile]

I have already been doing the njp as well but if done as soon as he starts falling, its still considered a mid hitting attack. His njp doesn't become an OH until halfway down his njp animation and by then the opponent has already blocked the low trap and can easily identify the OH njp. This is another reason I feel the way I do about this character. Not only that, but tech roll beats trap just as easily as well, and If I do a hardknockdown instead, they can just wakeup and knock me out of setting up trap because of the recovery on the move. I'm trying my best to test this stuff as accurately as possible and everything I try goes south

If you read they're going to delayed wake-up then delay the jump, if not jump earlier. If you read they're gonna delay wake-up and you're still hitting the NJP as a mid then you're jumping too late.

Obviously you can be beat if you do this and it sounds like you're just getting out-read by your opponents. If you learn how to counter every option the opponent has, and I'm sure you can find all this info on here, then all it takes is the right reads. If you make the right read and still get beat out then you're doing something wrong.

 

[ando1184]

If you read they're going to delayed wake-up then delay the jump, if not jump earlier. If you read they're gonna delay wake-up and you're still hitting the NJP as a mid then you're jumping too late.

Obviously you can be beat if you do this and it sounds like you're just getting out-read by your opponents. If you learn how to counter every option the opponent has, and I'm sure you can find all this info on here, then all it takes is the right reads. If you make the right read and still get beat out then you're doing something wrong.

This isn't reads this is me testing scenarios in training mode, sorry I didn't clarify that this testing was after our offline session. I've tried putting opponent on delay wakeup, tech roll, wakeup attack, everything and yes like all setup characters you have to make proper reads for stuff like this to work. But what I'm saying is that the way he does it doesn't mesh well with the typical setup-esc character. Luther had a much easier time getting things on the screen and his setups worked well because of it. Predator doesn't have that luxury, all of his normal are slow and specials have slow recovery, his discs go away on block and hit, He has no OH starters, and his bombs go away on hit and become active late.

 

[The_Tile]

This isn't reads this is me testing scenarios in training mode, sorry I didn't clarify that this testing was after our offline session. I've tried putting opponent on delay wakeup, tech roll, wakeup attack, everything and yes like all setup characters you have to make proper reads for stuff like this to work. But what I'm saying is that the way he does it doesn't mesh well with the typical setup-esc character. Luther had a much easier time getting things on the screen and his setups worked well because of it. Predator doesn't have that luxury, all of his normal are slow and specials have slow recovery, his discs go away on block and hit, He has no OH starters, and his bombs go away on hit and become active late.

Tbh, I've not actually put any time into Hunter yet so I'm not gonna carry this on. I have saw some dirty stuff on here though, specifically by Tom Brady, and it appeared as though his setups are really good in the corner. It does seem as though he has some trouble getting stuff out midscreen versus certain characters but I'm not really sure how brilliant or bad he is myself yet.
I have played Hish-Qu-Ten though and that seems like a solid character. He can use his cancels to confirm off his fast strings which are usually not as good in Hunter because of how negative a lot of them are. He can also confirm off his ridiculous reaching B2(I think thats the input) and his 3,2, which is his overhead. This is very hard to fuzzyguard even though the OH is the second hit because of how fast it is, and because the first hit of that string deceivingly looks like his low, B3.

TL;DR: Hish seems like a very solid variation, Hunter seems more situational.

 

[Alvhe Feleo]

Any real Predator fan should be playing one of the other two.

This is mainly why I chose warrior...

To be honest I don't like setup variations because they feel lame to me. However it's always great to see an enemy without ranged attack trying to jump over the trap because you are spamming disks on them, only to be stabbed with BF+4 and thrown into the trap that will get replaced asap. There are some moves I still don't use, such as the healing injection, but the trolling potential is high.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

This isn't reads this is me testing scenarios in training mode, sorry I didn't clarify that this testing was after our offline session. I've tried putting opponent on delay wakeup, tech roll, wakeup attack, everything and yes like all setup characters you have to make proper reads for stuff like this to work. But what I'm saying is that the way he does it doesn't mesh well with the typical setup-esc character. Luther had a much easier time getting things on the screen and his setups worked well because of it. Predator doesn't have that luxury, all of his normal are slow and specials have slow recovery, his discs go away on block and hit, He has no OH starters, and his bombs go away on hit and become active late.

What specific characters are you having difficulty getting things on screen against and how are they giving you difficulty?

 

[ando1184]

Tbh, I've not actually put any time into Hunter yet so I'm not gonna carry this on. I have saw some dirty stuff on here though, specifically by Tom Brady, and it appeared as though his setups are really good in the corner. It does seem as though he has some trouble getting stuff out midscreen versus certain characters but I'm not really sure how brilliant or bad he is myself yet.
I have played Hish-Qu-Ten though and that seems like a solid character. He can use his cancels to confirm off his fast strings which are usually not as good in Hunter because of how negative a lot of them are. He can also confirm off his ridiculous reaching B2(I think thats the input) and his 3,2, which is his overhead. This is very hard to fuzzyguard even though the OH is the second hit because of how fast it is, and because the first hit of that string deceivingly looks like his low, B3.

TL;DR: Hish seems like a very solid variation, Hunter seems more situational.

That's my biggest gripe though. He's a setup character but midscreen he struggles to do what his variation is sold on, "setting things up." I switched to his pew pew variation as my go to as well because of this. Yes, the Tom Brady setups are good in the corner but getting them there is high risk low reward scenarios. It just blows because this was the variation that I was most excited about when playing this character. I am still gonna play it and try and find tech but at the moment, it fails in a lot of aspects that HQT is strong in or just decent in.

 

[The_Tile]

That's my biggest gripe though. He's a setup character but midscreen he struggles to do what his variation is sold on, "setting things up." I switched to his pew pew variation as my go to as well because of this. Yes, the Tom Brady setups are good in the corner but getting them there is high risk low reward scenarios. It just blows because this was the variation that I was most excited about when playing this character. I am still gonna play it and try and find tech but at the moment, it fails in a lot of aspects that HQT is strong in or just decent in.

I completely understand what you mean now. It is really early though and trap/setup characters do usually take more time to shine, it just takes longer to find that stuff. Right now HQT does definitely look stronger but that could change.

 

[ando1184]

What specific characters are you having difficulty getting things on screen against and how are they giving you difficulty?

Well here's an example: Against D'vorah, I would be max range and d4 cancel into far mine setup. D4 hits but D'vorah runs in and does f1, it hits me before I recover from the mine animation and she gets a full combo plus oki. Scenario 2: Same start only I place a close mine, she comes at me and starts f1 pressure again, only I'm blocking it but I'm being pushed away from my mine. Scenario 3: same start except d4 is blocked, she runs up and hits me with f1 while I'm in the throw mine animation. Basically, His animations and recovery are too slow so doing mine, disc, or anything else doesn't warrant a rewarding opportunity in most cases. Mine setups appear to only be that useful post knockdown, but even then, the opponent has way more options to get out of the setups This isn't just vs D'vorah either, anyone can run up and stop Hunter setups by just being in your face because predator has limited defensive options. Plus, he doesn't excel at building meter more than any of the other mid/low tiered characters and he seems to rely more on meter in this particular variation.