Question - Summoner Post Patch Quan Chi Discussion

[STRYKIE]

Use tremor and look how different db1 is across each variation. Or KL spin.

This is because they legitimately are different moves with different properties though lol.

As a pet peeve side note, it irks me when people say "Kung Lao in Hat Trick has Buzzsaw's spin"

That's his default spin in the first place. It's only in Tempest that it changes.

I don't see why they'd give a variation tailored towards the utility of one move an exclusive version of trance.

 

[STRYKIE]

Also, you guys wanna know something else that was changed about Summoner in the ESL build allegedly?

Spoiler

Bat summon is now hard coded, so if you already used bat at any point in a combo, you can't summon it again no matter what until the combo is over

So if the above is true, then there would legit be no point to adjusting trance other than to appease fuckbois. If Summoner wanted to keep you in the blender after using a hard-to-block, he'd have to do it the old fashioned way.

 

[Rude]

Also, you guys wanna know something else that was changed about Summoner in the ESL build allegedly?

Spoiler

Bat summon is now hard coded, so if you already used bat at any point in a combo, you can't summon it again no matter what until the combo is over

So if the above is true, then there would legit be no point to adjusting trance other than to appease fuckbois. If Summoner wanted to keep you in the blender after using a hard-to-block, he'd have to do it the old fashioned way.

I'm thinking you might by able to call Bat safely if you did something like standing 4 on hit, or after a njk in the corner.

The blender might not exist, but there is still potential for post-knockdown shenanigans.

 

[STRYKIE]

I'm thinking you might by able to call Bat safely if you did something like standing 4 on hit, or after a njk in the corner.

The blender might not exist, but there is still potential for post-knockdown shenanigans.

Standing 4 wouldn't give enough advantage to do it, if you mean standing 4xxBat summon, remember, it's hard coded, the game simply wont let you do it until the combo is systematically over.

Summoner's options post knockdown, while still considerably oppressive, is probably not what most people have an issue with, he's arguably an inferior zoner to HQT Predator, who's armor utility is also limited but still far more usable, and it hurts like hell when it does hit. The situations when Sky Drop can reliably be used (which can probably be counted on one hand), Summoner gets himself a 15% knockdown.

The witch-hunt as far as I know is geared towards Summoner's hard-to-blocks and overall damage potential, both of which are significantly neutered by Bat summon being hard coded. The armchair critics should draw the line as to where their own quality of life wishlist is coming into play and risk fucking over the other variations.

And I'd like to remind everyone I'm a Warlock specialist, I have no agenda to use Summoner myself regardless of what happens to it.

 

[Rude]

Standing 4 wouldn't give enough advantage to do it, if you mean standing 4xxBat summon, remember, it's hard coded, the game simply wont let you do it until the combo is systematically over.

Summoner's options post knockdown, while still considerably oppressive, is probably not what most people have an issue with, he's arguably an inferior zoner to HQT Predator, who's armor utility is also limited but still far more usable, and it hurts like hell when it does hit. The situations when Sky Drop can reliably be used (which can probably be counted on one hand), Summoner gets himself a 15% knockdown.

The witch-hunt as far as I know is geared towards Summoner's hard-to-blocks and overall damage potential, both of which are significantly neutered by Bat summon being hard coded. The armchair critics should draw the line as to where their own quality of life wishlist is coming into play and risk fucking over the other variations.

And I'd like to remind everyone I'm a Warlock specialist, I have no agenda to use Summoner myself regardless of what happens to it.

I should have clarified. I was thinking about canceling into bat after f4/4 at the end of combos. Say you do something like:

Starter xx Trance, 4/f4 xx Call Bat.

Although from what you're saying, that's probably not possible.

The hard-to-blockables were admittedly a problem. I still feel that if they took the universal property whereby an OH/Low mix up hit on the same frame causes one hit to be mid and extend that by more frames, the 1-frame nightmare blocks would no longer be a problem.

It seems excessive to nerf MB Rune, Trance duration and code it to where Bat is only summoned once. Especially when you consider that these problems have existed with Summoner for some time and then they buffed him.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. At least all three variations will still have the + on block MB Skull.

 

[God Confirm]

Standing 4 wouldn't give enough advantage to do it, if you mean standing 4xxBat summon, remember, it's hard coded, the game simply wont let you do it until the combo is systematically over.

Summoner's options post knockdown, while still considerably oppressive, is probably not what most people have an issue with, he's arguably an inferior zoner to HQT Predator, who's armor utility is also limited but still far more usable, and it hurts like hell when it does hit. The situations when Sky Drop can reliably be used (which can probably be counted on one hand), Summoner gets himself a 15% knockdown.

The witch-hunt as far as I know is geared towards Summoner's hard-to-blocks and overall damage potential, both of which are significantly neutered by Bat summon being hard coded. The armchair critics should draw the line as to where their own quality of life wishlist is coming into play and risk fucking over the other variations.

And I'd like to remind everyone I'm a Warlock specialist, I have no agenda to use Summoner myself regardless of what happens to it.

So is that like Kung Lao's Hat Spin, where if you have it already out, or you summon it mid combo, you are hard coded to not use it again till the combo is over? Or is it like Hellfire's Hellfire, where you simply cannot cancel anything into it.

 

[STRYKIE]

So is that like Kung Lao's Hat Spin, where if you have it already out, or you summon it mid combo, you are hard coded to not use it again till the combo is over? Or is it like Hellfire's Hellfire, where you simply cannot cancel anything into it.

Like Hat Spin.

 

[Aramonde]

Also, you guys wanna know something else that was changed about Summoner in the ESL build allegedly?

Spoiler

Bat summon is now hard coded, so if you already used bat at any point in a combo, you can't summon it again no matter what until the combo is over

So if the above is true, then there would legit be no point to adjusting trance other than to appease fuckbois. If Summoner wanted to keep you in the blender after using a hard-to-block, he'd have to do it the old fashioned way.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME! WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!

If all these rumors are true then NRS doesn't know how to balence they're fucking games. So your going to nerf the fuck out of summoner then nerf his other variations which no one had a problem with?!

Mother fucker just when i buy a PS4 and can finally start getting good with this character and start playing with this community he has to get nerfed to fucking hell. Every time i start to like this game and NRS they have to do something that totally pisses me off! /rant

 

[DDutchguy]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME! WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!

If all these rumors are true then NRS doesn't know how to balence they're fucking games. So your going to nerf the fuck out of summoner then nerf his other variations which no one had a problem with?!

Mother fucker just when i buy a PS4 and can finally start getting good with this character and start playing with this community he has to get nerfed to fucking hell. Every time i start to like this game and NRS they have to do something that totally pisses me off! /rant

You're saying it like NRS just threw Quan Chi into the garbage bin. As far as I know Quan still does good damage (still great damage in Summoner after a reset with bat out), has armored 50/50s in Sorcerer that can still be set up reliably, has an 11-frame armored erversal and wakeup in Warlock and a very strong 50/50. Let's wait until beta Quan Chi can actually be played before screaming bloody murder.

 

[LiquidDrone]

My god guys, people should only complain about summoner cause it's fair he receives nerfs...but why do you want also warlock and sorcerer destroyed? I really don't get it. I' m not bias at all here, cause this is a constructive discussion. Nerf is ok, but don't drag entire characters down with kenshi...there will always be top tier characters.

 

[DDutchguy]

My god guys, people should only complain about summoner cause it's fair he receives nerfs...but why do you want also warlock and sorcerer destroyed? I really don't get it.

You're suggesting that TYM wanted Sorcerer and/or Warlock destroyed, which they didn't. I've only seen Summoner as a problem really. Sorcerer and Warlock are mad good but even still did not need nerfs (besides *maybe* a slight duration reduction on the armor spell to keep corner shenanigans from getting out of hand).

 

[Azmodeus]

You're suggesting that TYM wanted Sorcerer and/or Warlock destroyed, which they didn't. I've only seen Summoner as a problem really. Sorcerer and Warlock are mad good but even still did not need nerfs (besides *maybe* a slight duration reduction on the armor spell to keep corner shenanigans from getting out of hand).

Everyone associates quan with summoner, so they don't say nerf summoner, they say nerf quan.

 

[Nortnauq]

I'm taking Spec Ops and Shirai Ryu hard to blockables down with me

Summoner Takeda

 

[Nortnauq]

I'm thinking you might by able to call Bat safely if you did something like standing 4 on hit, or after a njk in the corner.

The blender might not exist, but there is still potential for post-knockdown shenanigans.

at max range, B1 into bat summon seems to be the fastest and safest.

 

[Aramonde]

You're saying it like NRS just threw Quan Chi into the garbage bin. As far as I know Quan still does good damage (still great damage in Summoner after a reset with bat out), has armored 50/50s in Sorcerer that can still be set up reliably, has an 11-frame armored erversal and wakeup in Warlock and a very strong 50/50. Let's wait until beta Quan Chi can actually be played before screaming bloody murder.

Christopher Lambert is right.

 

[pointguardU1]

Summoner is now D tier

Sorcerer and warlock have been killed off

And casual scrubs like "God Confirm" are to blame. Good job NRS

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Standing 4 wouldn't give enough advantage to do it, if you mean standing 4xxBat summon, remember, it's hard coded, the game simply wont let you do it until the combo is systematically over.

Summoner's options post knockdown, while still considerably oppressive, is probably not what most people have an issue with, he's arguably an inferior zoner to HQT Predator, who's armor utility is also limited but still far more usable, and it hurts like hell when it does hit. The situations when Sky Drop can reliably be used (which can probably be counted on one hand), Summoner gets himself a 15% knockdown.

The witch-hunt as far as I know is geared towards Summoner's hard-to-blocks and overall damage potential, both of which are significantly neutered by Bat summon being hard coded. The armchair critics should draw the line as to where their own quality of life wishlist is coming into play and risk fucking over the other variations.

And I'd like to remind everyone I'm a Warlock specialist, I have no agenda to use Summoner myself regardless of what happens to it.

If this is true, and is the only nerf summoner recieves I think it's awesome. It will nerf his damage output in a practical way without killing the character. However, that plus the extended trance animation plus -1 rune is overkill imo

 

[STRYKIE]

If this is true, and is the only nerf summoner recieves I think it's awesome. It will nerf his damage output in a practical way without killing the character. However, that plus the extended trance animation plus -1 rune is overkill imo

I get a feeling he'll be added to the next beta update anyway, I dunno if every change NRS has on the cards will be implemented, but we'll see what we can gather from that.

 

[Sunny_D]

All these fools saying that we can just use ex skull for the plus frames...

The ex rune is not only about the plus frames. It's that it also launches for combo on hit. If they're gonna do this, I want the gaps in his strings removed.

a bit late reply but, *low lancher=/=plus frames* pick one

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

I get a feeling he'll be added to the next beta update anyway, I dunno if every change NRS has on the cards will be implemented, but we'll see what we can gather from that.

I though nrs said there will not be any more beta updates. They were just gathering information now

 

[STRYKIE]

I though nrs said there will not be any more beta updates. They were just gathering information now

Dude, check the date on that post....

 

[Goat-City]

a bit late reply but, *low lancher=/=plus frames* pick one

I disagree with this, there's no problem with a 1 bar launcher being plus on block as long as the character is balanced around it, which Quan was. If you were talking about armored launching reversals like Crystalline Tremor has then I'd agree, but in this case it makes no sense with all the characters in the game who are super plus with fireball run cancels after strings that they can hit confirm into combos for no meter at all. Warlock was balanced before with his plus on block launcher, and Sorcerer and Summoner weren't far from being balanced with it too. Quan's MB rune should've been left alone aside from maybe an added gap between them, just like Shinnok's +14 MB hellsparks.

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

Dude, check the date on that post....

Lol sorry

 

[GAV]

According to the poll, we have...

...53 people that know what they're talking about.
...37 people that don't.
...and 9 morons.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

a bit late reply but, *low lancher=/=plus frames* pick one

Rune being a low launcher is total bill. If you get hit by the second rune by blocking high, you 100% deserve it.