Poll: is nomad dash cancel worth the bar (and the slot)?

[Tony at Home]

are you referring to the low hook?

Yes.

... but i now rescind that opinion cuz I just got mixed to death by another Kabal using it

 

[babalook]

I really want to use NDC but if low hook isn't fuzzy guardable I think it's the better option (if you have to choose between the two). Low hook makes his best strings even better and it comes at no cost, while NDC comes with the huge risk of losing your flip out for what feels like +1 (if that). Further into the game when people start consistently using flawless block U2, NDC may seem even more costly if you're spending your defensive bar on mediocre pressure at the cost of full combo punishing a string. Maybe it should cost less meter like a 4th of a bar (I think this would also make high-level Kabal gameplay more entertaining to watch). Maybe the cancel adv of some moves should be increased? Given the cost, even if it was like +9 you would only have to deal with two cancels and the threat of a grab (the risk-reward still wouldn't be in Kabal's favor). Probably too early to tell, I don't really understand why they've chosen to gimp cancels in this game though, I thought that was kind of a unique and cool aspect of MK games.

 

[MKF30]

Pretty much like some have said already, I think it depends on the player. If you're rushdown, frame trappy happy player then the NDC would be a wise choice. If you're more zoney and keep away, than it's not worth the 2 bars/slots

 

[AK Harold]

I love that this discussion can happen because of the great slot system! I really enjoy strategy games etc. so this kinda stuff makes me really happy.

 

[dribirut]

It’s a gimmick. I use it and it’s really good at first but after the opponent gets used to seeing the glow animation and sound it’s very reactable and none of the strings I’ve used seem to be plus at all. I try to go for immediate d1 after the ndc and still get beat out by their d1..

Imo like a lot of other moves, this will end up being pretty useless unless they make plus for a couple of strings. For example they could make 111 ndc plus 2-3 and b12 ndc plus 1-2.. something like that

 

[AK Harold]

He is definitely plus on some cancels, if you mix this up with regular staggers and full strings since he is safe on them, it really screws with their flawless block attempts and throw breaks. It also allows the resource to build up and continue.
If you are doing them back to back all the time when you have bar then you aren't mixing anything since the opponent can rely on you always cancelling when you can.
It's a deception tool, not a brute Force tool even though it can be when you need it.

 

[JDM]

we need to see the frame advantage on all the moves to decide if it's worth it or not. Didn't really seem like anything was plus or plus enough to warrant picking it.

 

[dribirut]

He is definitely plus on some cancels, if you mix this up with regular staggers and full strings since he is safe on them, it really screws with their flawless block attempts and throw breaks. It also allows the resource to build up and continue.
If you are doing them back to back all the time when you have bar then you aren't mixing anything since the opponent can rely on you always cancelling when you can.
It's a deception tool, not a brute Force tool even though it can be when you need it.

which ones are plus? I cant find any that are

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

Gunshow’s Kabal is OD because of it.
Anyone else notice how seemingly good most of his gear moves are? The restand is good, I’m hearing the air dash is good, low hook and low buzz saw are pretty ok, everyone knows the AA hook is good, and now NDC adding more pressure options. Hopefully this viability holds up after the release and with other characters

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Yes it is worth, and has a high cost but is viable for mix-up. Look at REO using it, it's definitely strong but I'm glad it has that cost.

 

[PLAY FOR KEEPSIES]

I don’t remember if this was REO or who it was that said this, but a top player unironiclaly called Injustice 2 Joker the new MK9 Cyrax when the game came out....

it was Pig of the Hut who said that

 

[TackyHaddock]

Which tournament variation did it end up in, if any? Not getting game until tonight

 

[SarahFCM]

Absolutely! You can get actual plus frames off of most strings. I mean it can only go up to +8, as opposed to the MKX levels of +12 etc. But I think not only is it worth it, but you're sort of doing yourself a disservice by not having it. Kabal doesn't have much of a low presence, so you have to pressure somehow.

 

[Einzelstueck123]

Hey guys,
im also a filthy casual. Had a long pause from Mortal Kombat but want to restart in MK11 fresh again.
I learned the NDC and tried to adapt it in my online play.

I struggle very hard... after Reset for example i tried to F4+NDC and try to go into a mixup.
The problem i faced a lot vs "better" players is that they just wait to a visual "flash" for the NDC and give a quick D1.
I cant "play" out a big advantage out of it because of that D1. Sometimes i try to crossoverjump to catch them while doing D1 but even then they r sometimes faster to give a Uppercut afterwards.
Anyone has face similar problems or has a good advice / tip what the best BNB options are after reset?
Regarding framedata F3, F2 has most OB advantage framsewise
( +8/+3 = source from a kindly tym member https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vNhbdot3-OuYQEOe8ltgX9zBkHbjiXUHNOAy93Op79A/edit#gid=0 )

 

[MagicMan357]

See the real issue is that it doesnt give you stupid advantage anymore so people think its bad. Its not bad at all you just need to be able to execute properly off the cancel.

 

[GLoRToR]

Trying to get community consensus on this point. Someone told me that REO mentioned on his stream that the Mk11 NDC is even better than the Mk9 version, but trying to understand why. Other than the bar usage, the biggest difference to me is that you seemingly cannot cancel the dash mid-dash or towards the end, but only right at the beginning, so it loses its Mk9 utility as a mobility tool. In Mk9 you could cancel it at the last second before hitting the opponent and then begin block pressure.

The bar usage point has been thoroughly discussed, but perhaps a bigger question is the slot usage. By selecting NDC, what are you sacrificing with that slot.

Also, if the cancel is not plus, perhaps it should not use a bar - this could then maybe justify the slot usage.

I may just be overly nostalgic here, but I'd love NDC to at least be a viable option without being broken or unfair.

While Kabal may seem like he isn't overwhelmingly strong to you, I can assure you that most people feel the same way about their mains right now.
NDC is powerful, but it will take practice and understanding much like everything else in the game.
For example, Jade's staff cancels are legit full combo punishable by most of the cast. She has no real combo damage and all her moves are unsafe.

 

[Hor_PeT]

"The problem i faced a lot vs "better" players is that they just wait to a visual "flash" for the NDC and give a quick D1."

If it is +3/+8 the better player can have visual flash read but no D1 will beat +8 followed up a proper button.

But the cancel must be perfect and players will challenge your skill every time lol (intentionally or just because).

That's why there is a big barrier between trash and "godlike" due to the execution especially if every frames matter.

I like the other variation too. Nothing crazy about but he has everything. Not +on block pressure but rather stagger, hitconfirm, footsies, 50/50 possibility in case of 2 strings (might be fuzzyable).
Of course it might be not enough on high level lol - thats another story.

 

[Einzelstueck123]

Thank you very much for your reply!

 

[AK Harold]

Currently there are few attacks that are plus frames. On top of that the strings that are plus frames are easy to flawless and single attacks are slow enough to react and flawless.

Ndc gives you the ability to get plus frames off of very fast moves. This makes him unique among other tools that he has.

 

[Ludaaak]

While Kabal may seem like he isn't overwhelmingly strong to you, I can assure you that most people feel the same way about their mains right now.
NDC is powerful, but it will take practice and understanding much like everything else in the game.
For example, Jade's staff cancels are legit full combo punishable by most of the cast. She has no real combo damage and all her moves are unsafe.

Just feels like the NDC is an overrated conditioning tool that isn’t a justifiable trade off for other moves you could put in place of it. If it it was in his base moveset, different story

 

[GLoRToR]

Just feels like the NDC is an overrated conditioning tool that isn’t a justifiable trade off for other moves you could put in place of it. If it it was in his base moveset, different story

Feels the exact same way with Jade's pole variation. Not all these tools are definitive imo

 

[Ludaaak]

Feels the exact same way with Jade's pole variation. Not all these tools are definitive imo

Yeah, I had a bit of a fiddle around with Jade in the lab. I see what you mean.

 

[GLoRToR]

Yeah, I had a bit of a fiddle around with Jade in the lab. I see what you mean.

The fact that they've only had so many weeks to create unique concepts for all these characters necessitates that not all of them will be up to par just yet. Patience is advisable in all cases. If you head over to the Jade thread you can see my first impressions of her there. You'll see that the general consensus on all characters is that they all need work.

 

[feedyourcatbro]

It's really really good. The rest of the variation is just booty butt cheeks.

 

[Reauxbot]

It's really really good. The rest of the variation is just booty butt cheeks.

Damn it seems like no ones satisfied with any of the roster lol