Poking on Block/Hit

[santanabar]

Pro tip: If you play any character with 10 frame poke on block (poke startup - block adv, ie Geras 6 + 4), and you are not playing against anyone with 9 frame mid, completely ignore the first post and just poke to death. For real.

 

[chud_munson]

Man, what a fantastic post this is. I was literally just to post a super vague question asking about good ways to start pressure in my favor, help shut down when my opponent gets on a roll, and figure out how I can better respect turn order, and I wasn't sure how to phrase what I'm looking for. This is the thread I didn't know I needed.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

D4: This poke typically reaches the farthest, grants the most advantage, but is typically the slowest. Think of it as your tool to tell the player "Stop, I dont know you, get away." It will also not grant a combo, but it does hit low.

I look at D4 as having two related uses in these games. One is to low-profile strings that start high from range. Kotal is a good example — he has a string that covers half the screen and starts high, that he can start far enough that a d1 or d3 would usually whiff. So d4 can function as a check that keeps him honest or forces him to rely on a less-desirable mid starter instead.

The second is as a stop to movement. Once you predict when your opponent is about to walk or dash in, you can check their movement with d4 to interrupt their movement rhythm fairly safely before they even attack. Because of the range and hurtbox on d4 it’s more likely to reach but harder to whiff punish, which makes it more useful as a predictive tool in neutral.

 

[Jynks]

If I had been influenced by another source, would that make it less helpful here? That video you reference goes over mk9 pokes and how hed change the mk11 pokes to be similar, not their current mechanics.

Lighten up dude. I wasn't complaining about your post or dissing you in anyway. Try being a little less silly about being a victim and a little more confident. Not every comment is an attack. I wasn't even talking about you. I just think it is funny how these threads away popup on a topic just done by a famous streamer or youtuber. I bet I can predict the next "analysis" thread based on my youtube feed the day before. People call them "influencers" now and it is so apt. I think we all like to think we are very independent but we can not escape our tribal roots. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, I just find it curious.

 

[SHAOLIN]

I think it's a good time to mention how no NRS game is the same. What I mean by that is that there's no baseline or foundation for them to work from.

For example of that look no further than Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive. There's a foundation for each and every game that I've mentioned, that the developers build upon; either they make it better, they might change something around a little bit but not to the extreme that NRS does with its fighters.

I had hoped they finally figure things out this time around with MK 11, I guess not. . .

 

[Professor Oak]

Pro tip: If you play any character with 10 frame poke on block (poke startup - block adv, ie Geras 6 + 4), and you are not playing against anyone with 9 frame mid, completely ignore the first post and just poke to death. For real.

Name one character without a 10 or less frame mid, including pokes.

 

[Professor Oak]

Lighten up dude. I wasn't complaining about your post or dissing you in anyway. Try being a little less silly about being a victim and a little more confident. Not every comment is an attack. I wasn't even talking about you. I just think it is funny how these threads away popup on a topic just done by a famous streamer or youtuber. I bet I can predict the next "analysis" thread based on my youtube feed the day before. People call them "influencers" now and it is so apt. I think we all like to think we are very independent but we can not escape our tribal roots. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, I just find it curious.

Your curiousity was expressed very condescendingly, as is this reply. Im not playing victim, Im calling out your unwarranted, unproductive, off-topic shit post. I am keen on psychology, I was influenced by playing members who mash pokes without reason. Your implication was that this was a form of plagiarism. Hold your L, big boy. Im done replying, be a good sport and dont talk to me like Im some pleb.

 

[Jynks]

I said something I thought was interesting about this thread, you took it as a insult, I tried to explain that there was no insult intended and to clarify my original post, and you got more insulted. I'm not sure I am responsible for your unpredictable inference of my casual chatting, when what you took away was so different to my intentions. The funny thing here is that I have said nothing bad about you, no insults or any kind of attacks and you have made personal comments about me a bunch of times. Still, as it often is, the person that complains the most about being attacked is the one that is most aggressively attacking others.

 

[Professor Oak]

I'm not responsible for your unpredictable inference of my casual chatting. The funny thing here is that I have said nothing and about you and you have attacked me personal a bunch of times. Difference is of course it doesn't matter to me at all. Still, as it often is, the person that complains the most about being attacked is the one that is most aggressively attacking others.

Are you sure Ive attacked or insulted you? Closest I can see is saying youre contrary and seem foolish. Outside of that, I believe youre off base. I already said Im done replying, so here I am being foolish. Read back, you tell me Im silly and should be more confident. Youve avoided the topic to do what you accused me of, be the victim. Semantics are fun, acusations are great, but I have yet to personally insult you. Could some mods clean this up before my work to help the community is muddied by this mess? @Espio @Eldriken @CrimsonShadow

 

[Jynks]

<I was editing my post while you replied btw>

 

[santanabar]

Name one character without a 10 or less frame mid, including pokes.

I don't get your point, you consider getting picked in negative something bad?

 

[Sazbak]

D3: Crouching Low Kick. The name implies and certainly means that this kick comes from crouch position, and in every case but Frost, it is a low. Like d1, this will not combo outside of a juggle.

Geras's d3 is a mid.

 

[Professor Oak]

I said something I thought was interesting about this thread, you took it as a insult, I tried to explain that there was no insult intended and to clarify my original post, and you got more insulted. I'm not sure I am responsible for your unpredictable inference of my casual chatting, when what you took away was so different to my intentions. The funny thing here is that I have said nothing bad about you, no insults or any kind of attacks and you have made personal comments about me a bunch of times. Still, as it often is, the person that complains the most about being attacked is the one that is most aggressively attacking others.

Everyone can read, and people arent stupid. Explain your actual point or stop. If you dont think what you said had a connotation of disrespect, you are no longer worth my time. You are 100% responsible for what you type, and no matter how you try to dress it down or spin it, I know that, "I think its funny" rarely prefaces a kind and productive post. So, heres your shot, what DID you mean?

 

[Professor Oak]

I don't get your point, you consider getting picked in negative something bad?

If you poke and I block, poke back and hit because you were trying to poke again, I have massive frame advantage. Often enough to jail some highs. So, yes. Thoughtless poke mashing is what Im trying to help people avoid. This type of play is why my Dvorah beats online Geras', they try exactly what you suggest.

 

[Professor Oak]

Geras's d3 is a mid.

Nice catch!

 

[santanabar]

If you poke and I block, poke back and hit because you were trying to poke again, I have massive frame advantage. Often enough to jail some highs. So, yes. Thoughtless poke mashing is what Im trying to help people avoid. This type of play is why my Dvorah beats online Geras', they try exactly what you suggest.

What's the difference between blocking or get hit by a poke (besides the damage of course)? You are giving your turn anyway. Did you see dragon poke video?

 

[stokedAF]

I definitely play some round better than others. Some rounds it seems like I’m doing everything right but then lose the other 2 rounds by panic mashing. Or so focused on trying to do one thing that I forgot the other tools I have and get mopped. I’m definitely learning about what I’m doing wrong in this game though, I’ve never looked into the numbers before this game. I just need to get more reactionary in a good way and get my spacing down.

 

[Professor Oak]

What's the difference between blocking or get hit by a poke (besides the damage of course)? You are giving your turn anyway. Did you see dragon poke video?

Yes, I saw his tweet. The difference is massive frame advantage differences. Responding with a poke in time online is difficult, but if you are hit by a poke its not your turn, if you block a poke it is your turn. Dragon simply fell prey to online shit, or thought the opponent was conditioned to a different reaction.

 

[santanabar]

Yes, I saw his tweet. The difference is massive frame advantage differences. Responding with a poke in time online is difficult, but if you are hit by a poke its not your turn, if you block a poke it is your turn. Dragon simply fell prey to online shit, or thought the opponent was conditioned to a different reaction.

No, you don't get it.

You are -3.
Option 1: fundamentals says it's not your turn. You block. Opponent does whatever he wants.

Option 2.a: you poke. You hit the poke because opponent went for his mid which isn't fast enough. You take your turn back.

Option 2.b: you poke. You get hit by a poke, because it's the only move that your opponent has that can beat your poke. You lose the turn, have to block. Exactly same result as option 1.

 

[Professor Oak]

No, you don't get it.

You are -3.
Option 1: fundamentals says it's not your turn. You block. Opponent does whatever he wants.

Option 2.a: you poke. You hit the poke because opponent went for his mid which isn't fast enough. You take your turn back.

Option 2.b: you poke. You get hit by a poke, because it's the only move that your opponent has that can beat your poke. You lose the turn, have to block. Exactly same result as option 1.

Why would a 7f poke at - 3 beat a 7f poke? Maybe I dont get it, I dont see what youre saying.

 

[santanabar]

Why would a 7f poke at - 3 beat a 7f poke? Maybe I dont get it, I dont see what youre saying.

That's option 2.b

 

[Professor Oak]

That's option 2.b

I just dont get what youre saying. If Im -3, my poke will not beat the opponents poke, unless they have some awful buttons. If they try a slower mid it will, of course. Of course blocking would give the turn away without contest. How is this relevant and what are you trying to express?

 

[santanabar]

I just dont get what youre saying. If Im -3, my poke will not beat the opponents poke, unless they have some awful buttons. If they try a slower mid it will, of course. Of course blocking would give the turn away without contest. How is this relevant and what are you trying to express?

That your are forcing the opponent to poke when it's his turn. For free, no full combo punish. He should be going for a string, not a poke. Once you condition him, guess what happens.. you start blocking his poke, and it's your turn again.

 

[Professor Oak]

That your are forcing the opponent to poke when it's his turn. For free, no full combo punish. He should be going for a string, not a poke. Once you condition him, guess what happens.. you start blocking his poke, and it's your turn again.

And then he throws you instead? This is how fighting games work. If youre complaining about game balance, I hear you. But to act like you can just mash d1 and win against good players is misguided. If you hold block anticipating my poke, I no longer have to poke.

 

[scarsunseen]

Good advice. Also, it should be noted that certain low attacks will force ducking opponents to stand up on hit. Depending on the hit advantage, they could be forced into a situation where they must block high even though they never let go of down.