What's new

Poking on Block/Hit

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
So, I play quite a few people from this forum in Mortal Kombat 11. Im doing my best to improve and many members have given me great advice and Ive definitely gotten beter. Some players ask me for advice, and I wanted to make this post for the general forum goer.

Mortal Kombat 11's poking system is whack as fuck. Full stop. It has encouraged newer players to play in a disgusting way that gets them blown up 10 times out of 9 by anyone with experience. Let me start with some vocabulary for the not yet initiated:

Pokes: These are your single hit crouching attacks. All accessible by inputting down+a face button.

D1: This is your crouching jab. There is only one character who can extend their crouching Jab, Jax, ye still D1s will not combo from a special cancel in any situation outside of a juggle. This attack is universally a mid.
D3: Crouching Low Kick. The name implies and certainly means that this kick comes from crouch position, and in every case but Geras, and Frost, it is a low. Like d1, this will not combo outside of a juggle.

These moves have similar uses that usually boil down to stopping your opponents momentum, and beginning your own. Ill get more into specifics here shortly, but there is another poke that has unique uses.

D4: This poke typically reaches the farthest, grants the most advantage, but is typically the slowest. Think of it as your tool to tell the player "Stop, I dont know you, get away." It will also not grant a combo, but it does hit low.

Now I know, "Look Pokemon guy, we know this, what gives?" Glad you asked, audience that Im imagining and voicing.
In NRS titles, this system is paramount. Think of each fight as divided into turns, player A can maintain offense until they have committed to an option that leaves them vulnerable, thus ending their turn allowing Player B to take their offensive turn. To better understand when we or our opponent are vulnerable, we refer to the frame data. To keep this in the realm of pokes we will focus only on such attacks.

Commonly, D1s and D3s will be in the range of 6-9 frames of startup. They are among the fastest attacks in the game, yet they lead to the lowest amount of damage alone and as we said before, are special cancellable but do not combo. Now the important info Id like to get into. Hit and block advantage. For this, we will use Geras, a very strong character with a great d1. Geras' d1 is 6 frames startup, -4 frames block advantage, and 13 frames of hit advantage.

We should all be familiar with Jacquis f31 feint pressure. Understanding that her feint from this string has -2 block advantage, we can see that Geras' d1 would interrupt another f3. Subtracting these frames from Jacquis f3, making it 11 frames, d1 at 6 frames easily enforces Geras' turn. Now, Jacqui, going for a second f3 will be hit, leaving Geras at +13. This naturally opens up many possibilities to get damage. The goal of establishing your turn should be to get as much damage as possible. Now, you, as Geras, have 13 frames of advantage to work with. You can go into a blockstring, throw, the world is yours. The opponent will still have the option to block, so the last thing you want to do, is another d1. You will be at -4, making your awesome d1 now 10 frames, being slower than jacquis f3, youre forced back into block pressure and have not gained a health advantage. Lets say youre new, you didnt know, or youre some sort of massochist, and you did d1 during that hit advantage, and maybe youre used to wifi or fighting ai or youre just a tad dense, you mashed a third d1, now youre kountered for a full combo.

In short, pokes are to obtain your offensive turn, they are not your turn. Refer to your in game frame data for situations you can poke out of.

Now, that being said, you can also poke when you should be negative enough to end your turn, we refer to this as stealing your turn, or disrespecting. Keeping with the same data we will continue to use Geras and Jacqui.Usually, this will come down to a risk or a read of the opponents habits. Say Jacqui cancelled f31 and blocked, rather than going for a second f3. You may think hope is lost, back in this pressure. Well, possibly not! Lets say the Jacqui player has a tendency to stagger a standing jab(S1) and you read she will after your blocked d1, then let that baby rip one more time. In Mortal Kombat 11, most pokes will go under(Low profile) high attacks. Your d1 would also hit if the character who blocked the initial d1 didnt have or didnt use a mid faster than 11 frames. There are also some exceptions due to hitbox/Hurtbox issues.

Basically, you should almost never poke twice in a row. Almost.


Dont give up your chance to win. If your poke hits, know that you have the chance to make them hurt. If its blocked, know how to defend yourself. I may come back and add more to this, but I do also plan on writing up some tips on blocking/Getting hit by pokes. Hope this helps someone, cheers!
 
Last edited:

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
I do have to say, even though I've been playing NRS games for quite some time, it is still good to have a reminder and how something like this need to be said from time to time.

Good stuff!
Thanks man, just know a few players who would benefit from taking this in and building from it.

I feel like that last paragraph was written specifically for idiots like me. lmao

I try to steal my turn way too much! I guess at least I'm enforcing them to do a poke or another mid instead of a blockstring. lol
You definitely are a thief of turns, but you usually make good reads. I learned a lt from your playstyle brotha man.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
It goes against almost everything fundamental we have ever learned, but poking twice in a row IS a good read sometimes.

1. If you know for a fact your opponent will go for a high - Poke while negative.

2. If you want to encourage your opponent to start going for more of their mid options (Sonya) - Poke while negative.

3. If you have a D1 or D3 that is so safe on block that it literally forces the opponent to D1 back (Shang Tsung D3 7f startup -2 on block)
- Poke while negative.
(mix in D3 into Ground Skull sometimes for extra annoyance)

4. Characters with bad mids like D'Vorah and Kano have to rely on D1 as their mid for the most part, and if they suspect that the opponent will press their poke even though they got hit, Kano could D1 to see if they are mashing. Next time they get hit by D1 Kano could go for a mid that is punishable on block to catch them, but first it's best to have the intel that two D1s in a row gives the Kano player.

The main thing is that it DEFINITELY teaches newer players bad habits. All D1s and D3s should be confirmed on hit so that you continue pressure. Many players literally just yolo their next input after pressing D1 without knowing if it hit or not, which is a severely bad habit. If I see someone doing this, it will just equal free damage for me.

That said, going for low pokes while negative or even going for two low pokes in a row really does work sometimes.

As long as you are doing it with FULL AWARENESS of why you are doing it, it actually could be the exact tool you need to get that poke on hit.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
It goes against almost everything fundamental we have ever learned, but poking twice in a row IS a good read sometimes.

1. If you know for a fact your opponent will go for a high - Poke while negative.

2. If you want to encourage your opponent to start going for more of their mid options (Sonya) - Poke while negative.

3. If you have a D1 or D3 that is so safe on block that it literally forces the opponent to D1 back (Shang Tsung D3 7f startup -2 on block)
- Poke while negative.
(mix in D3 into Ground Skull sometimes for extra annoyance)

4. Characters with bad mids like D'Vorah and Kano have to rely on D1 as their mid for the most part, and if they suspect that the opponent will press their poke even though they got hit, Kano could D1 to see if they are mashing. Next time they get hit by D1 Kano could go for a mid that is punishable on block to catch them, but first it's best to have the intel that two D1s in a row gives the Kano player.

The main thing is that it DEFINITELY teaches newer players bad habits. All D1s and D3s should be confirmed on hit so that you continue pressure. Many players literally just yolo their next input after pressing D1 without knowing if it hit or not, which is a severely bad habit. If I see someone doing this, it will just equal free damage for me.

That said, going for low pokes while negative or even going for two low pokes in a row really does work sometimes.

As long as you are doing it with FULL AWARENESS of why you are doing it, it actually could be the exact tool you need to get that poke on hit.
Yes, definitely, and thanks for adding this. I feel playing Dvorah has made me understand this very well. Good stuff.
 

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
Ok... I will swallow my pride and admit that this is one of my habits. It's been quite the adjustment coming from a 20+ year old MK game with a run button, jabs, and constant pressure. Now I have to focus on neutral, frames with different advantage, and relearn 20+ chars.

This post is great and I appreciate the reminder that if someone doesn't change their habits, they won't improve. I can only imagine when I consistently steal turns that I might be able to compete better with some players from here.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
Geras having a 6 frame D1 that is -4 on block is a perfect example of why pokes in this game are dumb. Some characters fastest move is 8 frames, giving you a 2 frame window to poke back. Good luck doing that consistently online. Either give everyone a 6 frame poke or make everyone -6 after a blocked D1.
Yeah, its dumb, but we either learn it or pray for a patch that may not come, or may not change the system. For now we have to think of how the game is, not how we percieve it should be.
 

Maus03

Noob
This is very informative, i only feel like that understanding the theory en use it in your gameplan are two different things. Is there a good way to practice this in the lab or something?
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
This is very informative, i only feel like that understanding the theory en use it in your gameplan are two different things. Is there a good way to practice this in the lab or something?
Record the ai to do the string you want to poke after, along with their options after on 4 different recordings, set it to hidden random playback. In many cases that you can poke, a jab into combo also works.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
I do have to say, even though I've been playing NRS games for quite some time, it is still good to have a reminder and how something like this need to be said from time to time.
it is funny how threads like this pop up all the time only a day or hours after a famous player dose the same thign.. in this case Reo's Poke video that got shared around all over the place.
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
it is funny how threads like this pop up all the time only a day or hours after a famous player dose the same thign.. in this case Reo's Poke video that got shared around all over the place.
I can only speak for myself when it comes to this but I don't follow Reo as much as I used to back in the MK9 days, while I do frequent TYM a lot...
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
it is funny how threads like this pop up all the time only a day or hours after a famous player dose the same thign.. in this case Reo's Poke video that got shared around all over the place.
If I had been influenced by another source, would that make it less helpful here? That video you reference goes over mk9 pokes and how hed change the mk11 pokes to be similar, not their current mechanics. Funny how you constantly play contrarian, yet always seem foolish. When I began lurking this site years ago, I thought you were so cool. Thank god Im not so filled with angst now. Ggs. Remember, Jynks is a Pokemon, and Im the professor. Find your lane, sir.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Geras having a 6 frame D1 that is -4 on block is a perfect example of why pokes in this game are dumb. Some characters fastest move is 8 frames, giving you a 2 frame window to poke back. Good luck doing that consistently online. Either give everyone a 6 frame poke or make everyone -6 after a blocked D1.
Now this is a valid complaint. I think they need to tweak the frame data on a few of these super strong pokes just for the sake of competative online. Im not talking major changes but enough where it is not a 2 frame window when we already know online input delay is around 3 frames in low ping numbers (worse if high)
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
Now this is a valid complaint. I think they need to tweak the frame data on a few of these super strong pokes just for the sake of competative online. Im not talking major changes but enough where it is not a 2 frame window when we already know online input delay is around 3 frames in low ping numbers (worse if high)
Jason had the same thing when he got buffed in MKX. It's like they didn't learn from it the first time and made the -same- mistake.

No character should have a -4 6f poke.