PLEASE HELP: I dont understand frame data

[igotAhalo]

Okay, this is going to drive me nuts. I'm not stupid, I KNOW I'm not stupid (lol). But for some reason I cant seem to grasp what all the frame data means, specifically cancel advantage. I looked it up, but it always turns into someone explaining it, but including more calculations in the explanation itself. All of the frame data categories are pretty self explanatory, but when I start reading on an in depth level it confuses me. Can someone please break down cancel advantage and how these frame data categories affect gameplay? I've already looked this up on tym, I've read the guides that we do have on frame data but I'm still lost

 

[Krankk]

Watch the following two videos and you're good to go:

 

[igotAhalo]

@Krankk these helped, but I'm still confused on what cancel advantage is. He went over it lightly here but not fully?

 

[Krankk]

@Krankk these helped, but I'm still confused on what cancel advantage is. He went over it lightly here but not fully?

Eh... I'm a beginner myself, who doesn't understand things fully, but if I'm not all too wrong, then cancel advantage are the frames (period of time) during which you can cancel a normal or a string into a special move. Like for example there are strings with a cancel advantage of N/A. These moves pretty much always end up on hard knockdowns... or they just push the opponents very far away and your character spends that time in recovery.
So you can't cancel those strings into specials. However, I think it's also often the case that if such an N/A string consists out of three button presses, often you can try inputting just the first two commands of the string and cancelling those with a special attack.

 

[igotAhalo]

Eh... I'm a beginner myself, who doesn't understand things fully, but if I'm not all too wrong, then cancel advantage are the frames (period of time) during which you can cancel a normal or a string into a special move. Like for example there are strings with a cancel advantage of N/A. These moves pretty much always end up on hard knockdowns... or they just push the opponents very far away and your character spends that time in recovery.
So you can't cancel those strings into specials. However, I think it's also often the case that if such an N/A string consists out of three button presses, often you can try inputting just the first two commands of the string and cancelling those with a special attack.

Yea but what confuses me is, from reading a bit about cancel advantage, someone was saying that you should be able to tell whether there is a gap in a string, if you can poke out of it, etc etc.. stuff like that. Is that true? If so, how?

 

[Vslayer]

@Krankk these helped, but I'm still confused on what cancel advantage is. He went over it lightly here but not fully?

I think a lot of people just oversimplify this.

If there is a number for the Cancel Advantage it means you can cancel the string into a special move.

Like for example, the string 1,1,1 can be canceled which means you can interrupt it at any given point to 'cancel' into a special move. So you can do 1,1,1 + nut kick for example. But you can also cancel it after the first or second hit (1,1+special), or you can finish the whole string and then input the command for the special move. The advantage part just means you have enough time to finish the whole string and input a special right after you complete it.

 

[Madog32]

Lets say the string 111 has a cancel advantage of 5f, and is plus 15 on hit

This means you can cancel the last hit of 111 with a special move and the special move will begin 5f sooner than the 111 strings 15 active frames would finish.

Meaning, the special will BEGIN its startup frames 5f before the full active frames of 111 are finished. So 111 would be active for 15f, but since we canceled it, 111 is active for 10f, and the last 5f (the cancel advantage) is used for the startup of whatever special you used.

 

[igotAhalo]

Lets say the string 111 has a cancel advantage of 5f, and is active for 15f.

This means you can cancel the last hit of 111 with a special move and the special move will begin 5f sooner than the 111 strings 15 active frames would finish.

Meaning, the special will BEGIN its startup frames 5f before the full active frames of 111 are finished. So 111 would be active for 15f, but since we canceled it, 111 is active for 10f, and the last 5f (the cancel advantage) is used for the startup of whatever special you used.

Ok, so what makes a string have gaps or no gaps? Does cancel advantage come into play here?

 

[Juggs]

Isn’t there a frame data tutorial in MK11? Did you do that?

 

[igotAhalo]

Isn’t there a frame data tutorial in MK11? Did you do that?

Yes but it still leaves me with questions. I get the basics of frame data, but the second you go past basic into gaps, jailing, knowing when you can poke through strings, etc is when I get confused

 

[GLoRToR]

@Krankk these helped, but I'm still confused on what cancel advantage is. He went over it lightly here but not fully?

If a special move starts up in 10 frames but your normal only has 9 cancel advantage, you can't cancel it into that special move.
If another normal has a cancel advantage of 11, you can cancel it into that special move.

Canceling a normal into a special means you create a string, such as 112fireball.
Fireball starts up in 15f
112's cancel adv is 18f
Teleport starts up in 19f, so you can't cancel it into that. You need to use 314, which has a cancel advantage of 21f

 

[Krankk]

Ok, so what makes a string have gaps or no gaps? Does cancel advantage come into play here?

I would say that gaps in strings come from a lengthy animation during the string. If the string lands, there are no issues. But if that string is blocked, there is still that lengthy animation between attack 2 of the string and attack 3. So the opponent can poke out of your string between your attack 2 and 3.
Strings with gaps in them are rather rare in NRS games, I would say... And even if there is a string with a gap, that string still needs to be overall great to be used. If it's a string, which can't be cancelled and has slow start up and is negative on block AND has a gap, that string will absolutely never be used. But even if it's a good string with a gap in between, I still think that you need to be on a high enough of a level to actually punish the gap. And the opponent needs to be aware of that as well.
So at first you should consider if strings with gaps are something you should really be looking into... or if there is other, more basic stuff you should be focusing on first.

 

[Madog32]

Ok, so what makes a string have gaps or no gaps? Does cancel advantage come into play here?

well you would know how big a gap is when you look at the special you chose to use in your cancel. If the startup of your special is 15f, and 111s cancel advantage is only 2f, then that means your special will be coming out 13f after 111. So if 111 is only +4 on hit, that means the opponent will have 8f (12f for startup - the 4f you earned for landing the hit) to poke you

The logic applies even to the gaps between hits in strings, doesn't always relate to canceling with specials.

 

[Madog32]

If a special move starts up in 10 frames but your normal only has 9 cancel advantage, you can't cancel it into that special move.
If another normal has a cancel advantage of 11, you can cancel it into that special move.

Canceling a normal into a special means you create a string, such as 112fireball.
Fireball starts up in 15f
112's cancel adv is 18f
Teleport starts up in 19f, so you can't cancel it into that. You need to use 314, which has a cancel advantage of 21f

To clarify, it's not that you can't cancel it, it's just that you begin to create gaps. Some of which may not be exploitable (tho this game does have flawless block stuff so it's likely all gaps are dangerous now)

 

[igotAhalo]

well you would know how big a gap is when you look at the special you chose to use in your cancel. If the startup of your special is 15f, and 111s cancel advantage is only 2f, then that means your special will be coming out 13f after 111. So if 111 is only +4 on hit, that means the opponent will have 8f (12f for startup - the 4f you earned for landing the hit) to poke you

The logic applies even to the gaps between hits in strings, doesn't always relate to canceling with specials.

Ok so tell me if I'm right. Scorpions standing 1 has a cancel advantage of 11, and hit adv of 4. His teleport starts in 23 frames. Doing the math you shown, if I cancel standing 1 into teleport, the person has 8 frames to play with in between this string?

 

[igotAhalo]

Ok I think in getting it now... I did that simple string above, standing 1> tele, and the AI was able to block the tele after the standing 1 connected. I did the same thing except did 1,1>tele, and the ai was not able to block because 1,1 had a much longer hit/cancel adv than just 1

 

[DDustiNN]

This is a great thread. Very helpful responses!