What's new

People think She is Easy?

Is Cassie Honest or Busted?


  • Total voters
    113

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
You see, newbies or weak players find challenge in combos. Combos are not what define a good player, it's a minimum. Anybody can land combos if they practice enough. Plus, more often than not, the hardest combos are not the optimal ones.
And this game is really not execution heavy, at least for me. Back in SF4, I used To main C.Viper and believe me, her combos and instant cancels are WAY harder than any combo in MK11.
The neutral, footsies, spacing, baiting, whiff punishing... this is where you recognize true skill. And this is where I enjoy the game the most. Landing a perfectly planned whiff punish is much more satisfying to me than landing that big combo I've been practicing, mastered and is just a BnB for me now.
Honestly all of the things you described are pretty easy for competitive players to do. Spacing, footsie, zoning, baiting wiffs, frame traps, cancels are all easy in MK11 and really only takes practice to start doing it naturally.
I feel Flawless Blocking on reads, Wave Dashing and dash canceling is the hardest thing in 11. MK9/X had much harder cancels and frame perfect links than this game and higher execution than anyone in 11.
The BnBs are pretty easy in this game in fact quite limited and low execution compared to previous games but there are some high execution 1-3f link combos like Sonyas ERDC 2f link in the corner that is pretty hard to do even for high level players and requires a ton of labbing so I wouldn't say combos are beaindead it just depends on what you do.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Compare her to Geras who farts out KB's and looping 50/50's or Baraka who has every tool she has
It's fine but come on stop with the misinformation already. Baraka does not have any of the tools she has. He does not have long reaching fast hit confirmable mids, he is not neutral or plus on everything he throws out. He does not have restands into the best mids in the game

My point was she isn't the best at anything she does but we all agree she is high tier, her zoning gets beat by Sonya, Geras, Shang, Cetrion and maybe Scarlet(more even) same with damage, pressure and range. She is a well built Jack of all trades master of none And I think that's fine.
Rofllmaowtflulbbq
Listen. It's fine that you think she's MK's answer to Lee Chaolan. That's an opinion. But stop with the misinformation. She completely negates Sonya's zoning game. This is why Scar had to run Scorpion against F0xy Grampa at CB. "Jack of all trades master of none" - BEST. FOOTSIES. IN. THE GAME. Geras arent famous for his insane stagger game and safety. I dont think the Grr vs Sonic Fox runback a while back supports your claim of him outzoning Cassie
 
Last edited:

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
It's fine but come on stop with the misinformation already. Baraka does not have any of the tools she has. He does not have long reaching fast hit confirmable mids, he is not neutral or plus on everything he throws out. He does not have restands into the best mids in the game


Rofllmaowtflulbbq
Listen. It's fine that you think she's MK's answer to Lee Chaolan. That's an opinion. But stop with the misinformation. She completely negates Sonya's zoning game. This is why Scar had to run Scorpion against F0xy Grampa at CB. "Jack of all trades master of none" - BEST. FOOTSIES. IN. THE GAME. Geras arent famous for his insane stagger game and safety. I dont think the Grr vs Sonic Fox runback a while back supports your claim of him outzoning Cassie
I asked this in another thread and never got an answer so I'll throw it out again.

What do people mean when a CHARACTER has "good footsies" ? Isn't footsies the player ?
 

Sanjo

Noob
Honestly all of the things you described are pretty easy for competitive players to do. Spacing, footsie, zoning, baiting wiffs, frame traps, cancels are all easy in MK11 and really only takes practice to start doing it naturally.
I feel Flawless Blocking on reads, Wave Dashing and dash canceling is the hardest thing in 11. MK9/X had much harder cancels and frame perfect links than this game and higher execution than anyone in 11.
The BnBs are pretty easy in this game in fact quite limited and low execution compared to previous games but there are some high execution 1-3f link combos like Sonyas ERDC 2f link in the corner that is pretty hard to do even for high level players and requires a ton of labbing so I wouldn't say combos are beaindead it just depends on what you do.
Ok, it lools like you don't see the key difference between combos and neutral play. I'll make it simple. Combos is a one player game, it's just you in practice mode. Neutral is a two player game, what you do is in perpetual movement because you have to constantly re-assess the situation as your opponent is moving and carrying on his own plan.
You drop a combo, it's on you, you made a blunder. You've got whiff punished, you've just been outplayed.
 

xenogorgeous

Mileena is the best, Mileena 4ever !
Premium Supporter
I asked this in another thread and never got an answer so I'll throw it out again.

What do people mean when a CHARACTER has "good footsies" ? Isn't footsies the player ?
the player, yep .... however, some characters have combo, moves, special moves etc, that naturally benefits for better range, speed, frame advantage, frame recovery, or for being very safe on block, that this give, more or less, influence weight on the footsie gameplay quality that character can produce, so, it's a mix of players skill + very good tools on moveset that favours the neutral/footsie game
 
I asked this in another thread and never got an answer so I'll throw it out again.

What do people mean when a CHARACTER has "good footsies" ? Isn't footsies the player ?
When people say a character has good footsies, they typically mean that the character has tools that are good at footsies range. Footsie range varies depending on the game or who you ask but to me that is just inside sweep range to just about match start range. Grapplers tend to excel at a closer range then this, whereas zoner tend to excel at a further range. Core-a made a great video about this, but I can't easily link it right now. I think it's called why button mashing doesn't work.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
I asked this in another thread and never got an answer so I'll throw it out again.

What do people mean when a CHARACTER has "good footsies" ? Isn't footsies the player ?
You can say that about any character. Mixups has to be comitted to by the player. Cetrion has to have a plan in mind for throwing boulders and when to go for fireblasts.

Footsies refer to using movement, spacing and knowledge about the opponents moves to ideally force mistakes. A great example is if I play Johnny Cage and I go up against Kotal. From round start, Johnny's f4 and f3 will reach the opponent if he stands still, thus making it a powerful move in terms of footsies despite them both being somewhat slow. Kotal can back away a bit and make my f3 whiff and use his almost fullscreen mid to punish me on recovery. This is playing footsies in a nutshell.
Imma do this in a spoiler cuz its gonna take the whole screen
When we say a character has good footsies it can be about these aspects:
  • Good reach
  • Good movement
  • Speed of said moves that have reach
  • The long range normals being mid
  • staggers and recovery (although this is also relevant for rushdown)
  • moves lead to hit confirmable combostarters
  • Pushback on block
Take Jax for instance. He has a 9frame mid in f3. However, its range is very poor and f3 and f33 itself have a lot of recovery, thus whiffing this move is super easily punished. F2 is better in terms of footsies as its reaches further, is safe and has good recovery making it harder to be whiff punished - but it's a bit slower. Jax archetype is rushdown character - he wants to be in your face where the reach of his normals dont matter as much. Jax struggles against Kabal and Cassie due to them fundamentally by design having better tools of playing footsies with.

Going back to the Johnny example - lets put Cassie in the opponents place instead of Kotal. Cassie has access to an 11 frame mid in b2 that has almost the exact range as f3/f4. F2 is 10 or 11 frames and goes just as far as f3 - it's just much faster. Already now you should see why Cassie excels at this playstyle by design.

Johnny has good footsies but lacks a particularly scary stagger game as his moves either whiff (lul) or the moves simply being too slow. F3 being a high also makes poking out of staggers so much easier. The move also doesnt add pushback, this if I f3 and it gets blocked and I try to shimmy I can get blown up due to me being negative on top of being in her face and not blocking as I move backwards - point is, Johnny has to condition you to make use of his strong footsie toolset as he is not a particularly scary rushdown character lacking mid, hitconfirmable strings to punish opponents disrespecting frames with low profiling moves, thus requiring him to set up shimmies himself as he does not have the pleasure of having ressource free shimmy setups due to pushback (Think Scorpions d4 and f34 on block)

Going back to the list of footsie aspects - Cassie can put a big fat check at almost all categories for her mids, with f4 only lacking some reach, but this is where f2 and b2 still put the rest of the cast in the dust. F2 leads to a Krushing Blow on a whiff punish and otherwise plusframes on block. She's probably the only character with a gapless string that ends with a plus on block mid. F4 has pushback on block while leaving her neutral on block. It's also a hit confirmable mid if it connects. Due to it being 0 and automatically putting space between the opponent and herself she is already in an excellent position to apply shimmy. She's safe from retaliation at this point and the opponent fear her other advancing long normals. Cassie by design have a much easier time applying shimmies and force whiff punishes compared to other footsie characters due to her moves doing a lot of the setups for her. You can see Cassies literally standing still waiting for pokes to miss and then they just whiff punish with f4.

Thus, the player will have to make decisions, but the decisions in Cassie's case are no brainers often resulting in strike/throw mixups and there's little movement involved (and even lesser risk involved) with her footsie gameplan thanks to her amazing tools.

Sorry for the long explanation my man
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Ok, it lools like you don't see the key difference between combos and neutral play. I'll make it simple. Combos is a one player game, it's just you in practice mode. Neutral is a two player game, what you do is in perpetual movement because you have to constantly re-assess the situation as your opponent is moving and carrying on his own plan.
You drop a combo, it's on you, you made a blunder. You've got whiff punished, you've just been outplayed.
Are you Actually saying there is no skill in meter management, switching sides, optimal damage or choosing to kit it off for oki, setplay combos, choosing to restand or not or ground them when they have no meter, corner carry combos, all of this has to do with combos and how you choose to end/start them.
Obviously footsie/neutral is very important but let's not act like its high execution. Its basic fundamentals that every tournament player understands. All of it is important in high level play but MK11 isn't high execution compared to previous titles in the franchise.
 

Sanjo

Noob
Are you Actually saying there is no skill in meter management, switching sides, optimal damage or choosing to kit it off for oki, setplay combos, choosing to restand or not or ground them when they have no meter, corner carry combos, all of this has to do with combos and how you choose to end/start them.
Obviously footsie/neutral is very important but let's not act like its high execution. Its basic fundamentals that every tournament player understands. All of it is important in high level play but MK11 isn't high execution compared to previous titles in the franchise.
I will stop arguing with you now as it seems that your actual level doesn't allow you to see the superior complexity of fundamentals over combo execution. By the way, the 2 combos you reffered to are easy. Even Noob Saibot has harder combos requiring multiple micro-steps and just frame inputs. Have a good day.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Baraka does not have any of the tools she has. He does not have long reaching fast hit confirmable mids, he is not neutral or plus on everything he throws out. He does not have restands into the best mids in the game
Baraka has a lot of what she has in fact I find the gameplay very similar.

Like Cassie Baraka has:
Great Footsies
Great Staggers
Great range if not better than her
Above average projectiles
Excellent advancing mids
Number of hit mix
Amazing frame traps
Great JIK

What she has that he doesn't:
Restands
Low profiling mid projectile
B3(one of the best AAs)
auto shimmy

What Baraka has that Cassie doesn't:
Insane damage (35-40% without KB)
Multiple high damage KB's (40-60%)
Amazing jailing strings
Fatal Blow overriding Breakaway
Amazing Wakeup U+2/U+3
Great U+2/3 off FB

I see two very similar characters both being very footsie oriented and many of the same tools to open but obviously have their own perks.

Cassie is not plus or neutral off everything just her F21+3, F4 and her 19f low that has a gap.
Yes she gets rest and that is +4 from nutkick that's great, baraka doesn't really need it he kills you in two combos. He would be broke af if he had restands.
 
Last edited:

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Your opinion about Baraka is irrelevant. Cassie is ezmode. I can also say Baraka has difficulty opening people up, causing people always to have breakaway due to him not having a fast mid but nobody cares. Cassie has guaranteed damage in Yaas Queen. Nobody cares. It doesnt change the fact Cassie is designed around throwing out single button staggers with practically no risk involved due to frames and pushback. There is no execution here, everyone can do this. And if you wanna say "footsies are not easy" then lets agree that she is the easiest footsie character then lul
 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Your opinion about Baraka is irrelevant. Cassie is ezmode. I can also say Baraka has difficulty opening people up, causing people always to have breakaway due to him not having a fast mid but nobody cares. Cassie has guaranteed damage in Yaas Queen. Nobody cares. It doesnt change the fact Cassie is designed around throwing out single button staggers with practically no risk involved due to frames and pushback. There is no execution here, everyone can do this. And if you wanna say "footsies are not easy" then lets agree that she is the easiest footsie character then lul
Why you mad at people who play her tho, it's not like we designed her. I don't agree she's 'ezmode' but she is annoying AF to play against.
 
Why you mad at people who play her tho, it's not like we designed her. I don't agree she's 'ezmode' but she is annoying AF to play against.
I honestly don't think any character is a real easy mode in this game. When you compare it to previous nrs games, fighterz, and the smash series, The top tier characters are much less overwhelming. The real problem is how bad the bottom tier is. Those characters just have 0 juice