"Patch of the Might" - Podcast Discussion.

[M2Dave]

I agree that it's become a bit too constant but we're almost 4 months into a competitive game with virtually no balance changes; it's hard to blame anyone for this being a hot topic.

But if NRS are hasty, they will release an incomplete patch that over-buffs or over-nerfs characters as they have done in the past. People on social media will proceed to blow them up endlessly.

@M2Dave fair enough man I don't recall it. I stopped 3/4 the way through. It's just a bit silly to say let's all just enjoy and talk about tech not patches when theres like nothing to discuss.

Again, I agree with you that Mortal Kombat 11 lacks depth. In fact, I think the lack of depth is fundamentally the game's core problem. However, posting a long list of buffs and nerfs for every character seems futile to me. First of all, I doubt the developers have the time to read everything. Second of all, they already have a vision and opinion of how each character is designed to be played.

 

[Enexemander]

It's been 4 months. That's not hasty by any stretch. It's past due.

 

[Wigy]

But if NRS are hasty, they will release an incomplete patch that over-buffs or over-nerfs characters as they have done in the past. People on social media will proceed to blow them up endlessly.



Again, I agree with you that Mortal Kombat 11 lacks depth. In fact, I think the lack of depth is fundamentally the game's core problem. However, posting a long list of buffs and nerfs for every character seems futile to me. First of all, I doubt the developers have the time to read everything. Second of all, they already have a vision and opinion of how each character is designed to be played.

No I agree with you on the point of what they have in mind for characters. Like everyone posting frost needs a 11 frame mid and 7f poke. I think they intended for her to lack up close and make up for it elsewhere, I'm fine with that if they just implement it better. Id rather my character more to one niche extreme.

I don't think Nrs are directly guna use the lists I'm not stupid like that but there is just nothing to to discuss and I guess people find it fun to just speculate and it's a venting method.

The issue is partly with the community but there's nothing to talk about. If it wasn't patch threads or Evo discussion the forum would legit just die.

Tym is a shit show cause of the game. Everyone can say we're spoilt and shit but I've been here since mk9 and I've never seen anything like the scale of this in terms of hunger for new fixes/balance.

I don't think I'm alone in saying the tone of the podcast was pretty dismissive. Maybe direct some of your negative points at NRS.

For the record I wouldn't ever make a buff request thread past just light discussion on the general threads.

 

[M2Dave]

If that's the case then why try and silence people up?

I am not silencing anyone, but why do six out of the eight threads in the latest posts have to do with buffs and nerfs? Why do people post a long list of buffs and nerfs for every character? I have personally criticized Noob's gameplay design based on what was advertised in the trailer, but I have shared my opinion on several occasions and I have moved on. Perhaps the character is meant to be a "premier zoning character" of a different kind. Perhaps he does not fit my style so I am using another character who does.

Besides, focusing entirely on buffs and nerfs makes you a worse player. I know so from previous experiences (i.e., Deathstroke's low gunshots and Tremor being abysmal). Those players who adapt and focus on the way the game is are the ones who always win.

 

[Darth-Nero]

I am not silencing anyone, but why do six out of the eight threads in the latest posts have to do with buffs and nerfs? Why do people post a long list of buffs and nerfs for every character? I have personally criticized Noob's gameplay design based on what was advertised in the trailer, but I have shared my opinion on several occasions and I have moved on. Perhaps the character is meant to be a "premier zoning character" of a different kind. Perhaps he does not fit my style so I am using another character who does.

Besides, focusing entirely on buffs and nerfs makes you a worse player. I know so from previous experiences (i.e., Deathstroke's low gunshots and Tremor being abysmal). Those players who adapt and focus on the way the game is are the ones who always win.

Short answer is because people want to enjoy the game, It became increasingly hard to do so if you don't main one of the S-tiers. The tone of the podcast was also dismissive and condescending as if the game have no balance issues beside hitboxes.

But when you put it that way like "Hey, Let's for once not pretend to be experts on what needs to be changed for the game to be balanced and let NRS do that free of influence and based solely on their stats and numbers" That's a sentiment i can get behind, I am sick and tired of up/down playing hyperboles that only results in characters getting buffed senseless or nerfed to oblivion. Let's just see what NRS does with that 1st balance patch 1st and then decide whether we wanna crymoar or accept the hand we've been dealt and try to work with it.

Props for mentioning your old self (Tremor is abysmal) as an example of what's not to do, It shows how much you've grown honestly. There is this slight chance that you could be baiting me and this whole argument is because you secretly main Erron and don't want him changed but i'll bite anyways.

 

[Qwark28]

It's been 4 months. That's not hasty by any stretch. It's past due.

This community is so used to mommy NRS "evening" the field, that's why there's so much whining about balance and that's literally all you see. In comparison, any other company balances yearly or longer. But NRS players will cry because you get patches that way.

Imagine waiting 4 months.

 

[Qwark28]

Short answer is because people want to enjoy the game, It became increasingly hard to do so if you don't main one of the S-tiers. The tone of the podcast was also dismissive and condescending as if the game have no balance issues beside hitboxes.

Because your avg TYM player definitely labs and implements their findings in matches instead of whining, right?

And here some idiots go to majors with kotal, while still enjoying the game.

 

[Daemantalo]

This community is so used to mommy NRS "evening" the field, that's why there's so much whining about balance and that's literally all you see. In comparison, any other company balances yearly or longer. But NRS players will cry because you get patches that way.

Imagine waiting 4 months.

Should we just not have patches until a year in then? Since we both play arguably bottom 5 of the cast and they never make a presence unless in top 64 at EVO or Top 32 at any other major, don’t you think that’s a little bit of a sign that some of the lower tiers need this “evening?” I respect your ability to lab and stick it through to play who you enjoy, but damn, how long should the low tiers go without some form of help? I’d like to see more representation and sometimes no amount of labbing of setups or exploiting hitbox issues can get you out of certain matchups. When you fight an EB, Geras, or Jacqui, do you chalk it up 100% of time that the player themselves were better than you and outplayed you?

I’d like to hear your thoughts on that. Again, I respect your ability to grind with Kotal.

 

[Qwark28]

Should we just not have patches until a year in then? Since we both play arguably bottom 5 of the cast and they never make a presence unless in top 64 at EVO or Top 32 at any other major, don’t you think that’s a little bit of a sign that some of the lower tiers need this “evening?” I respect your ability to lab and stick it through to play who you enjoy, but damn, how long should the low tiers go without some form of help? I’d like to see more representation and sometimes no amount of labbing of setups or exploiting hitbox issues can get you out of certain matchups. When you fight an EB, Geras, or Jacqui, do you chalk it up 100% of time that the player themselves were better than you and outplayed you?

I’d like to hear your thoughts on that. Again, I respect your ability to grind with Kotal.

I don't like to blame my characters when I know I could have played better.

Most people on this site whine about top tiers when as far as we know right now, they don't even lose more than 5-5 or 6-4 to the aforementioned top tiers, when most people in ranked aren't even good players or lab that much in comparison to tournament players. At the highest level of play, their char might lose the matchup, but 99% of the time it's not terribly so. And they're not even close to the highest level of play.

I guarantee you that nearly everyone that is whining about how they can't do anything vs XYZ chars is just incapable of self reflection when they have an excuse for losing handed to them on a silver platter.

"It's geras, he's so broken, scorpion's tp is sooo dumb, sonya can zone you out". If you don't lose 7-3, what's the difference between any other matchup? That you have to play differently, the top tiers, even if they don't completely destroy you, they force you to play differently. Some ask you to look at their meter carefully, others to learn to play footsies while forced to block low more than often, others to learn to deal with characters that can zone while also being strong up close. They have their cake and eat it, just like other top tier chars in other games.

But ask the average poster to learn to S1, FB or even react and block errons F4. Or react to reborn's meter when he TPs, or things like OS FB skarlet slowballs. Nope.

edit: And I say this not as an argueable bottom 5, as a bottom 1. Kotal is the only char in this game who not only gets his D1 low profiled by 18 chars, but also has no corner game whatsoever, he has fewer options and less damage from certain conversions in comparison to midscreen.

And still, the only thing I'd like for this game is hit/hurtbox fixes and for my char at most, command grab not changing sides. I'm not even gonna mention a mid or functional krushing blows, I just want fixes for at least the next 4 months.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

To be fair

i feel the game itself was "hastily" released. Like half the characters just do not feel completed.
SO the patch taking this long is actually a shock to my NRS system.

 

[DarkSado]

Because your avg TYM player definitely labs and implements their findings in matches instead of whining, right?

And here some idiots go to majors with kotal, while still enjoying the game.

To be fair there really no tech in this game. Mk9, injustice and mkx had way more tech

 

[Qwark28]

To be fair there really no tech in this game. Mk9, injustice and mkx had way more tech

There are multiple OSes I haven't seen anyone in months discuss, or interrupts, FB setups, etc.

 

[Daemantalo]

You and REO are a sensible pair. I enjoy REOs statement about being a player rather than a developer. I understand that two people are going to have different ideas about how a character should be played (ie. I think Kabal should be played as a zoner, someone else might think he should be played like a rushdown character, and cater their wishlist of buffs to their agenda.)

To input my two cents, your character being high tier and you enjoying the game more is a high statement to make. Many people just want their characters to be viable, and many people beg for patches because of that. I want to see more tournament representation for the other lower tiers of the cast. I don’t recall many people on MKX being tired of seeing Kitana, Kano, Jason, etc. after they got buffed because other characters they fought against were still strong and had dirt. MK11 would probably the same situation if they don’t completely kneecap the current high tiers. I’d like to say people aren’t seriously selfish about thinking about only their character even on this website.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I don't like to blame my characters when I know I could have played better.

Most people on this site whine about top tiers when as far as we know right now, they don't even lose more than 5-5 or 6-4 to the aforementioned top tiers, when most people in ranked aren't even good players or lab that much in comparison to tournament players. At the highest level of play, their char might lose the matchup, but 99% of the time it's not terribly so. And they're not even close to the highest level of play.

I guarantee you that nearly everyone that is whining about how they can't do anything vs XYZ chars is just incapable of self reflection when they have an excuse for losing handed to them on a silver platter.

"It's geras, he's so broken, scorpion's tp is sooo dumb, sonya can zone you out". If you don't lose 6-4, what's the difference between any other matchup? That you have to play differently, the top tiers, even if they don't completely destroy you, they force you to play differently. Some ask you to look at their meter carefully, others to learn to play footsies while forced to block low more than often, others to learn to deal with characters that can zone while also being strong up close. They have their cake and eat it, just like other top tier chars in other games.

But ask the average poster to learn to S1, FB or even react and block errons F4. Or react to reborn's meter when he TPs, or things like OS FB skarlet slowballs. Nope.

edit: And I say this not as an argueable bottom 5, as a bottom 1. Kotal is the only char in this game who not only gets his D1 low profiled by 18 chars, but also has no corner game whatsoever, he has fewer options and less damage from certain conversions in comparison to midscreen.

And still, the only thing I'd like for this game is hit/hurtbox fixes and for my char at most, command grab not changing sides. I'm not even gonna mention a mid or functional krushing blows, I just want fixes for at least the next 4 months.

Probably one of the best posts I've seen on TYM in the past 4 years.

I also want to see how Hitboxes and KB's getting normalized/fixed effects the roster before any changes to frame data or how the character plays. I'd add having another Tournament Variation could be very beneficial to many characters.

I've seen complaining about Sonya, Geras, Scorpion, Sub, Cassie, Erron black, Kabal, Baraka, Jacqui ect when its clear they haven't used the characters themselves. The disparity between tiers is not as big as it has been in previous MK's. I've played every character on the roster and feel all have tools to get the W. Some are harder than others and every character has Bad MUs but online you are mostly playing the player not the character for the most part.
Personally I think fixing hitboxes will go a long way alone and then making KB's require more practical triggers will definitely help most of the mid to lower tiers a lot. If we had that plus 20 buffs per character it could be catastrophic to balance.

 

[NothingPersonal]

I like how most of the cast, and others as well, is m2dave ranting about how "the community" is ranting about the game, the balance. Yet, literally any of his threads and the majority of posts are exactly about that. This is one reason people don't losten to reo's podcasts. Why don't you take charge and make tech threads and discussios? Now I'll attack m2dave's person, as usual: never ever gives insights, always just truisms or plain wrong opinions, attacks others opinions just because, is annoying as fuck and keeps bringing up his top8 mk9 placing with a high tier 1 month dlc at evo. No one cares about your opinion dude, everyone'slistenibg to the podcast because of reo, you have nothing to do with it. End of attack on the person.
Overall the podcast brings good points, but I couldn't listen to the end, mainly because it was repetitive and could be summed up to 10-15 mins. And because of dave of course, annoying as fuck.

 

[Qwark28]

To be fair there really no tech in this game. Mk9, injustice and mkx had way more tech

There are multiple OSes I haven't seen anyone in months discuss, or interrupts, FB setups, etc.

To elaborate on this;

Did you know you can flawless block high projectiles that aren't true highs by blocking just as they go over you? Namely blood ball, definitely a few others as well. Know what that does? It gives you your U2 move on demand if you're close enough or if they try to follow their projectile. Chars like geras, kabal, kotal, kano can use this to straight up launch someone who tries to pressure you after them. At the very least it removes any possibility you'd ever get chipped by that projectile and gives you an invincible move or a launcher for the next few frames.

I can name at least 3-4 other OSes like this that I bet you are only discussed in 1-2 pages hidden in some obscure subforum, and that's if.

People who actually play and lab the game find these, others wait to be spoonfed while complaining. I could tell you about variations of OSes that wouldn't be discussed here for another 6 months unless some lab monster from twitter decided to make threads. And why would they? Also, MK9 was even more barebones regarding system mechanics that weren't bugs.

 

[M2Dave]

There is this slight chance that you could be baiting me and this whole argument is because you secretly main Erron and don't want him changed but i'll bite anyways.

Where do you get this stuff from? I have not gone to a major tournament since Injustice 1. I have no secret agenda. LOL. My main character is currently Shang Tsung.

I agree with you that the game may be difficult to enjoy if your main character is not S tier, but not every character can be S tier because of the nature of fighting games so you may have to learn secondary characters, particularly if you are competing.

 

[DarkSado]

To elaborate on this;

Did you know you can flawless block high projectiles that aren't true highs by crouching just as they go over you? Namely blood ball, definitely a few others as well. Know what that does? It gives you your U2 move on demand if you're close enough or if they try to follow their projectile. Chars like geras, kabal, kotal, kano can use this to straight up launch someone who tries to pressure you after them. At the very least it removes any possibility you'd ever get chipped by that projectile and gives you an invincible move or a launcher for the next few frames.

I can name at least 3-4 other OSes like this that I bet you are only discussed in 1-2 pages hidden in some obscure subforum, and that's if.

People who actually play and lab the game find these, others wait to be spoonfed while complaining. I could tell you about variations of OSes that wouldn't be discussed here for another 6 months unless some lab monster from twitter decided to make threads. And why would they? Also, MK9 was even more barebones regarding system mechanics that weren't bugs.

To elaborate on this;

Did you know you can flawless block high projectiles that aren't true highs by crouching just as they go over you? Namely blood ball, definitely a few others as well. Know what that does? It gives you your U2 move on demand if you're close enough or if they try to follow their projectile. Chars like geras, kabal, kotal, kano can use this to straight up launch someone who tries to pressure you after them. At the very least it removes any possibility you'd ever get chipped by that projectile and gives you an invincible move or a launcher for the next few frames.

I can name at least 3-4 other OSes like this that I bet you are only discussed in 1-2 pages hidden in some obscure subforum, and that's if.

People who actually play and lab the game find these, others wait to be spoonfed while complaining. I could tell you about variations of OSes that wouldn't be discussed here for another 6 months unless some lab monster from twitter decided to make threads. And why would they? Also, MK9 was even more barebones regarding system mechanics that weren't bugs.
[/QUOTE
We start looking for tech when they finish the game first, look at baraka second variation it literally have no ex moves beside ex spark which not even his variation move

 

[NothingPersonal]

To elaborate on this;

Did you know you can flawless block high projectiles that aren't true highs by crouching just as they go over you? Namely blood ball, definitely a few others as well. Know what that does? It gives you your U2 move on demand if you're close enough or if they try to follow their projectile. Chars like geras, kabal, kotal, kano can use this to straight up launch someone who tries to pressure you after them. At the very least it removes any possibility you'd ever get chipped by that projectile and gives you an invincible move or a launcher for the next few frames.

I can name at least 3-4 other OSes like this that I bet you are only discussed in 1-2 pages hidden in some obscure subforum, and that's if.

People who actually play and lab the game find these, others wait to be spoonfed while complaining. I could tell you about variations of OSes that wouldn't be discussed here for another 6 months unless some lab monster from twitter decided to make threads. And why would they? Also, MK9 was even more barebones regarding system mechanics that weren't bugs.

And this is a problem. People like you and others donțt talk about tech they know about, but then critisize the ”community” for being lazy and demnading buffs and nerfs and saying the game has no depth. It is true that the majority are barely interested in the depth of the game and just want free easy wins, but those people should be educated. Do that.

 

[Qwark28]

We start looking for tech when they finish the game first, look at baraka second variation it literally have no ex moves beside ex spark which not even his variation move

His 2nd variation is fine, I play it. You don't need to have ex moves to be a good char.

And this is a problem. People like you and others donțt talk about tech they know about, but then critisize the ”community” for being lazy and demnading buffs and nerfs and saying the game has no depth. It is true that the majority are barely interested in the depth of the game and just want free easy wins, but those people should be educated. Do that.

I've stated multiple times why I don't like this site, and I think it's been noticed. I don't like it from the way it's horribly run, to the denial of the owner/mods and to the way that 9/10 posts will be from people who either complain about balance, or talk about the game as if they actually understand it, then when you call them out on it pull out the "I'm still learning myself so yeah I def didn't mean the BS I said and I wanna learn!". Same people you'll find posting about discovering the basics of footsies, weeks after constantly shitposting regarding balance.

I've been posting tech threads since I joined this site and have found 90% of my char's techs for Joker, BA, Kotal, Sub in IGAU and MKX respectively. Can't be assed doing it again, especially when the site is in this state. The place is a zoo, and it's run like one. Not my place or interest to bother with it more than maybe posting in a thread every couple of days.

If you have any competitive intention for the game, and to keep yourself up to date, go follow all the pros on twitter. Far better platform, for competitive discussion or otherwise. Only use for this site is for entertainment and shitposting.

 

[NothingPersonal]

His 2nd variation is fine, I play it. You don't need to have ex moves to be a good char.

I've stated multiple times why I don't like this site, and I think it's been noticed. I don't like it from the way it's horribly run, to the denial of the owner/mods and to the way that 9/10 posts will be from people who either complain about balance, or talk about the game as if they actually understand it, then when you call them out on it pull out the "I'm still learning myself so yeah I def didn't mean the BS I said and I wanna learn!". Same people you'll find posting about discovering the basics of footsies, weeks after constantly shitposting regarding balance.

I've been posting tech threads since I joined this site and have found 90% of my char's techs for Joker, BA, Kotal, Sub in IGAU and MKX respectively. Can't be assed doing it again, especially when the site is in this state. The place is a zoo, and it's run like one. Not my place or interest to bother with it more than maybe posting in a thread every couple of days.

If you have any competitive intention for the game, and to keep yourself up to date, go follow all the pros on twitter. Far better platform, for competitive discussion or otherwise. Only use for this site is for entertainment and shitposting.

I donțt have twitter. Is discord ok? Itțs just that on a forum the info is organized more conveniently and easier to access.

 

[Qwark28]

I donțt have twitter. Is discord ok? Itțs just that on a forum the info is organized more conveniently and easier to access.

Discord is dead as well, few people use it. All the pros are on twitter.

 

[Hellbringer]

And this is a problem. People like you and others donțt talk about tech they know about, but then critisize the ”community” for being lazy and demnading buffs and nerfs and saying the game has no depth. It is true that the majority are barely interested in the depth of the game and just want free easy wins, but those people should be educated. Do that.

Go and try to educate ppl on gamefaqs or reddit and see how far that goes.
This site is becoming just like that, a huge pile of nerf and buff threads, complains, etc
Techthreads are rare, the ones that excist get buried by other shitty threads, ppl dont even care about tech here anymore, they want immediate balance patch.
Then you have all the ppl still crying about scorps teleport after 4 months when his teleport isnt that OP as ppl say.
Its sad cause this site used to be different.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Discord is dead as well, few people use it. All the pros are on twitter.

I am on Twitter and follow most of the top player's and there isn't much tech being shared. Seems they are more worried about hiding it from comp.
This forum has a much better platform to organize data and find it. It used to be so much better and tech was posted moreso but I remember 6-7 years back and not many posted worthy tech it was mostly someone posting basics and the community degrading the OP.
I hope more tech is shared on this platform because I feel its the best place for it.

Any specific accounts I should look at besides yours?
I follow all the top players maybe I'm missing a few?